[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":20865},["ShallowReactive",2],{"\u002Fpodcast\u002Fnews-ai-19-26-deepseek-v4-cursor-sdk-agentic-engineering":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":65,"speakerCount":66,"relatedPodcasts":67,"transcript":68},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"cover_image":14,"banner_image":12,"speakers":25,"members":26,"picks_of_the_day":61,"tags":62,"tagsPrepared":63,"speakersPrepared":64},"bcc6107a-9e90-4e7c-89f2-84b9132cb12b","2026-05-07T04:00:00.000Z","news","AI 19\u002F26","Deepseek V4 \u002F\u002F Cursor SDK \u002F\u002F Agentic Engineering","news-ai-19-26-deepseek-v4-cursor-sdk-agentic-engineering","\u003Cp>Habt ihr unsere Videopodcasts schon gesehen? Unsere News-Folgen gibt es auf \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002F@programmierbar\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">YouTube\u003C\u002Fa> und \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fopen.spotify.com\u002Fshow\u002F0ik0sXv9paTQCeThcOLCCJ\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Spotify\u003C\u002Fa> als Video.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Ihr möchtet auf der programmier.con 2026 (25.-26. November 2026) einen Talk halten? Dann meldet euch jetzt unter: \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fcfp.programmier.bar\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">cfp.programmier.bar\u003C\u002Fa>\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>In dieser Folge der AI News beschäftigen sich Dennis und Philipp mit der Frage, ob die Ära der subventionierten AI-Abos langsam zu Ende geht. Während GitHub Copilot seine Preismodelle anpasst und Limits bei Claude spürbarer werden, stellt sich für viele Entwicklungsteams die Frage: Wann ist ein lokales Modell oder eine eigene Rechenkapazität sinnvoller als die Cloud-Subscription? Passend dazu werfen wir einen Blick auf das neue \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fsimonwillison.net\u002F2026\u002FApr\u002F24\u002Fdeepseek-v4\u002F\">DeepSeek V4\u003C\u002Fa>, das mit den Versionen Pro und Flash nicht nur durch ein Kontextfenster von einer Million Token beeindruckt, sondern vor allem den Preiskampf bei Frontier-Modellen massiv verschärft.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Ein weiteres Highlight ist die \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002Fwatch?v=96jN2OCOfLs\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Einordnung\u003C\u002Fa> von Andrej Karpathy zum Thema „Vibe Coding” vs. „Agentic Engineering”. Wir diskutieren, warum der einfache Zugang durch Prompting die Basis der Softwareentwicklung verbreitert, aber für professionelle Anwendungen ein tieferes Verständnis der Logik und Infrastruktur unerlässlich bleibt. Karpathy betont dabei, dass ihr zwar das Denken auslagern könnt, aber niemals das Verständnis für das System verlieren dürft. \u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Zum Abschluss tauchen wir in das frisch veröffentlichte \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fcursor.com\u002Fblog\u002Ftypescript-sdk\">Cursor SDK\u003C\u002Fa> ein. Damit erhaltet ihr die Möglichkeit, die Intelligenz des beliebten Editors direkt in eure eigenen Workflows, CI-Pipelines oder benutzerdefinierten UIs zu integrieren. Besonders spannend ist hierbei der Cloud-Modus, bei dem der Agent in einer isolierten VM arbeitet, während ihr lokal die volle Kontrolle behaltet.\u003C\u002Fp>",null,"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.buzzsprout.com\u002F176239\u002Fepisodes\u002F19135305-news-ai-19-26-deepseek-v4-cursor-sdk-agentic-engineering.mp3",{"id":15,"title":16,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":17,"filename_download":18,"metadata":19,"type":20,"filesize":21,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":22,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":23,"folder":12,"width":24,"height":24,"charset":12,"duration":12},"c6393a70-4c95-4fee-99cd-757ae1d95ca0","Deepseek V4 \u002F\u002F Cursor SDK \u002F\u002F Agentic Engineering - episode_cover","c6393a70-4c95-4fee-99cd-757ae1d95ca0.jpg","news-AI 19\u002F26-episode_cover-1777981567708.jpg",{},"image\u002Fjpeg","532927","2026-05-05T11:46:07.810Z","2026-05-05T11:46:07.808Z",1024,[],[27,46],{"member":28},{"id":29,"first_name":30,"last_name":31,"occupation":32,"description":33,"normal_image":34},"62c42a42-97d3-4ddc-8532-1f92db0893fb","Philipp","Schmid","Senior AI Developer Relations Engineer bei Google DeepMind","\u003Cp>Philipp Schmid ist Senior AI Developer Relations Engineer bei Google DeepMind und arbeitet an Gemini und Gemma. Er hat es sich zur Mission gemacht, Entwickler:innen dabei zu unterstützen künstliche Intelligenz verantwortungsvoll einzusetzen.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Zuvor war er Technical Lead und Machine Learning Engineer bei Hugging Face, einer Firma, die gutes Machine Learning durch Open Source und Open Science demokratisieren möchte. Der junge Nürnberger und AWS Machine Learning Hero hat sozusagen die deutsche Variante von ChatGPT entwickelt und darüber \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.philschmid.de\u002Fintroducing-igel\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">auf seinem Blog\u003C\u002Fa> geschrieben. Checkt sie im \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fhuggingface.co\u002Fspaces\u002Fphilschmid\u002Figel-playground\">Playground\u003C\u002Fa> aus!\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":35,"title":36,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":37,"filename_download":38,"metadata":39,"type":40,"filesize":41,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":42,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":43,"uploaded_on":44,"folder":12,"width":45,"height":45,"charset":12,"duration":12},"8f9a35f2-0a36-4106-b91f-24aff468cba9","Philipp Schmid Profile","8f9a35f2-0a36-4106-b91f-24aff468cba9.png","Philipp_Schmid_profile.png",{},"image\u002Fpng","1995479","2023-04-14T13:49:23.764Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2023-04-14T13:49:23.426Z",2048,{"member":47},{"id":48,"first_name":49,"last_name":50,"occupation":51,"description":52,"normal_image":53},"958f6624-c721-4ff9-8a97-69148f540945","Dennis","Becker","\u002F\u002F Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Dennis ist Head of Development bei Lotum und kümmert sich liebevoll um die Entwickler:innen und deren Weiterentwicklung. \u003Cbr>In den Podcastfolgen übernimmt Dennis gerne die Moderation. Beim täglichen Tischtennis ist er immer am Start und seit wenigen Jahren passionierter Kitesurfer. Mittlerweile ist er auch Vibe Coder mit Leidenschaft und überzeugt, dass seine Kolleg:innen AI unterschätzen. \u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":54,"title":55,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":56,"filename_download":57,"metadata":12,"type":20,"filesize":58,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":59,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":60,"folder":12,"width":24,"height":24,"charset":12,"duration":12},"7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9","Dennis Becker","7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9.jpg","dennis_becker_normal_01e352e682.jpg","45729","2022-01-16T14:26:35.196Z","2021-12-30T14:16:28.647Z",[],[],[],[],464,194,[],{"id":69,"service":70,"supported_features":71,"speakers":74,"raw_response":79},"ce75dfa3-1f48-43ff-8333-7c8f5e87bcb8","deepgram",[72,73],"timestamps","diarization",[75,77],{"identifier":76,"name":49},"0",{"identifier":78,"name":30},"1",{"metadata":80,"results":94},{"transaction_key":81,"request_id":82,"sha256":83,"created":84,"duration":85,"channels":86,"models":87,"model_info":89},"deprecated","019dfdf2-2e26-7ab0-add3-4543a87f057c","e4dfa62be796e8c1e31ab65eca42407240bd5232eee3937cc4be1112c05ab9de","2026-05-06T15:40:04.146Z",1718.1672,1,[88],"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3",{"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3":90},{"name":91,"version":92,"arch":93},"2-general-nova","2024-05-09.3071","nova-2",{"channels":95,"utterances":14536},[96],{"alternatives":97},[98],{"transcript":99,"confidence":100,"words":101,"paragraphs":13908},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen AI News, Kalenderwoche 19 im Jahr 2026. Wir sprechen heute über Deepseek in 1 neuen Version Nummer 4, über das Curcer SDK und ein bisschen über die Begriffe des Vibe Coding und Agentic engineerings. Ich bin Dennis Becker und bei mir ist Der Philipp, hallo. Moin Philipp. Müssen Sie wieder auf Fabi verzichten, der angeblich viel zu arbeiten hat. Arbeitet er nicht mehr bei Lotum? Dann doch, okay. Sehr gut. Fraute meint er schon 2 Sekunden, den zu verstehen. Doch doch, arbeitet doch bei Lotum, aber er hat gesagt, meine seine Nachricht war so was wie diese Woche noch mal aussetzen, aber dass er zuversichtlich ist. Bald wieder hier. Ja, das ist meistens immer noch so, dass anfangen vom Ende. Das heißt, wenn Fabi dann nicht mehr mitkommt, dann wissen die Zuhörer auf jeden Fall Bescheid. Ja. Aber wir haben so so wir müssen mal, keine Ahnung, darf man hier schon so direkt interne interne Gedanken, nein, sind's ja nicht programmierbar, ist ein öffentliches Format, was wir haben, aber natürlich schon die Überlegung, ne? Auch in den News ist ja jetzt viel mit AI einfach und ich meine, ein Framework Update wird einfach in der Zukunft nicht mehr so relevant sein, sondern die Sachen, die uns halt beschäftigen, sind AI und Softwareentwicklerin da draußen irgendwie hat halt mit AI zu tun und nutzt diese Tools, ob da mittelfristig halt diese Trennung zwischen AI News und News noch sinnvoll ist oder wenn's nicht sowieso auch die Themen gibt. Und vielleicht kann man es trotzdem ein bisschen irgendwie einmal theoretischer, einmal ein bisschen praktischer Anwendung. Muss man ein bisschen gucken. Falls ihr Feedback dazu habt, wie ihr euch gerne das Format vorstellt hier in der Programmierbar, schreibt uns gerne an Podcast at Programmierbar oder über unsere Webseite Programmier Punkt bar. So. Jetzt kommt mir spontan der Übergang. Vielleicht machen wir Wir machen wir schweifen erst mal ganz kurz ab von der Agenda Fälle. Ich würde mal gerne interessieren, was dein Take dazu ist. Weil wir haben jetzt so intern bei uns Also Diskussion ist vielleicht ein bisschen übertrieben, aber so das erste Mal diese Gedanken, wenn wir jetzt ne eine Claw Subscription haben oder auch von mir aus eine Code Subscription, so dass wir immer mal häufiger jetzt in die Limits laufen von von den Abos. Wir hatten es ja glaube ich das letzte Mal schon gesagt, so ja okay, muss man dann 2 Abos machen oder so. Aber irgendwo ne ist ja irgendwie merkt man auf jeden Fall, da war dieser Test von Anthropic, wo sie das Cloud Kohl aus dem aus dem Basic Plan rausgenommen haben. Kodex, was jetzt deutlich begrenzter ist von von von den Möglichkeiten, die in den Abos mit drin sind, dass es tendenziell ein bisschen teurer wird und ich meine, bis zum gewissen Grad kann man bei uns einfach irgendwie sagen, ja das ist alles okay, ne? Also ich meine, Du hast einen Mehrwert davon, ob das jetzt 100 Dollar kostet oder 200, 300, 400 wahrscheinlich auch 500 Dollar und ich würde auch so sagen, wie 1000 Dollar, die ein Nutzer im Monat noch zusätzlich hat, ist irgendwie diesen Mehrwert, den man aktuell dadurch spürt, irgendwie wehrt. Und trotzdem ist ja dann ein bisschen die Frage, okay, wohin geht da so ein bisschen die Zukunft? Und da ist ja im Moment so ein bisschen, ja okay, wird einfach alles teurer und diese diese Pläne sind irgendwie subventioniert. Aber ist nicht auch gleichzeitig, also ist nicht der Marktdruck so groß, dass die Leute irgendwie die Modelle an die Leute bringen wollen und die Weiterentwicklung in Performance der Modelle und in und an Rechenleistung, irgendwie skaliert die nicht auch so, dass das Ich kann mir irgendwie nicht vorstellen, dass es exorbitant wird. Es gab irgendwie, hatten wir das schon in der letzten Folge? Muss ich ja auch für's hier oder privat diskutiert haben. Es gab irgendwie so einen x-Post, wo 1 gesagt hat, hey wir fangen jetzt wieder an Junior Leute einzustellen, weil die sind günstiger als unsere Token Kosten. Was ist dein Text so mittelfristig? Ich meine, wenn's jetzt bei kurzfristig, ne, werden so jetzt Zeiten gibt, wo es entweder zu billig ist oder von mir aus auch dann irgendwie zu teuer, aber wird das zukünftig eine relevante Überlegung sein, so? Also ich glaub, wir werden immer wieder darüber reden. Also man hat ganz stark gemerkt, dass vor allem in den letzten 6 Monaten die Subscriptions ja krass subventioniert waren. Man sieht's jetzt, glaub ich, vergittab war letzte Woche, die neue Subscriptions posiert haben und ihr Pricing Modelländerungen angekündigt haben, was ja, ich glaub, fast im Schnitt dreimal teurer beziehungsweise die Modelle sind dreimal teurer in deiner Subscription und Du bekommst jetzt nur noch sozusagen Credits für 20 Dollar und kannst sie dann aufnutzen. Also man sieht an allen Enden, dass halt Computing immer noch immer noch Computing constraints sind und dass halt Leute bereit sind, mehr Geld auszugeben für mehr Tokens. Das heißt, Du hast halt eine viel höhere Nachfrage als das Angebot und das drückt halt irgendwie den Preis 'n bisschen und ich mein für Antropic oder für andere und ich mein, ob mehr ist, sieht aktuell noch am besten aus, aber Du hast halt nur eine gewisse Anzahl an Computern und wenn Du nicht mehr hast, kannst Du halt auch nicht mehr Leute holen und irgendwann fängst Du dann den Preis halt anzupassen oder das mehr kalkulierbarer zu machen. Und im gleichen Zug sehen wir aber halt auch, dass Modelle günstiger werden. Ich mein, ich hab jetzt zum Beispiel, wo ich in den USA unterwegs war, ich hab Jimmer a 26 b 4 a lokal genutzt auf meinem Macbook. Und klar ist es nicht irgendwie das beste Frontiermodell und macht alles hands off von alleine, aber es kann schon sehr, sehr viele Dinge sehr, sehr gut. Und ich glaub, wir werden halt immer son Auf und Ab haben. Also ich wär, wird fast sicher sein, dass die, wie sagt man da, die schöne Zeit von Claude Max 200 und irgendwas und so viel prompt, wie's nur geht, irgendwie jetzt langsam zu Ende geht. Wir werden bessere, teurere Modelle bekommen, weil die halt auch trotzdem immer noch größer werden. Also man merkt es halt nicht so krass, aber es gibt ja sehr, sehr viele Andeutungen immer wieder, dass die Modelle halt trotzdem noch größer werden. Man sieht's ja auch jetzt im Open Source Bereich. Wir werden gleich über Deep Sieg 4 reden. Auf der anderen Seite siehst Du halt auch im Open Source Bereich, wie es kostengünstiger geht. Also es wird 'n umkampfter Markt bleiben und ich glaub, als Unternehmen musst Du dich dann halt schon irgendwann mal damit befassen, okay, worauf fokussiere ich mich? Also, bin ich bereit, Providers eher zu wechseln oder bin ich bereit, irgendwie 6 Monate hinter allen zu sein, aber dafür fünfmal günstiger? Oder investiere ich vielleicht selber wirklich in eigene Rechenkapazität, weil Modelle jetzt so gut sind, dass es keine Ahnung ab 50 Mitarbeiter günstiger wird für mich, die Modelle selber zu rosten oder so. Ja. Ja, aber siehst Du irgendwo eine irgendwo einen Pfad, wo das wo man wirklich die Abwägung treffen muss, ob man da jetzt ein Mitarbeiter für einstellt oder eine Nein. Ich mein, ich hab das davor auch nicht gesehen. Ich bin immer noch der starken Meinung, dass mit dass Du mehr Leute einstellen kannst, dass Du produktiver dadurch wirst und nicht halt also ganz vieles ja immer wieder mit Kosten reduzieren verbunden und ob ich dann, klar, ich kann halt Kosten nicht reduzieren, wenn ich mehr Kosten hab durch Token Useage. Also das verstehe ich dann schon wieder. Und ich mein, das ist bewegt man sich, glaub, eher an son bisschen übertriebenen Hype Social Media in dem dann. Ja, weil ich würde eben auch sagen, weißt Du, weil die die die Open Modelle oder die man lokalen Modelle, die man halt jetzt nutzen kann, die sind ja qualitativ eben auch schon so gut, dass da absehbar ist, dass es einen Pfad gibt zu auch noch besseren Modellen, weißt Du? Da ist ja jetzt auch nicht, warum sollte da jetzt gerade das Limit erreicht sein im im Mai 2026 und es nicht weitergehen. Und wenn Du das halt irgendwie siehst, wenn das noch ein Stückchen besser wird und das heutige Rand rutscht, dann kannst Du halt auch einen Großteil der aktuellen Codingsachen ja irgendwie auch lokal laufen lassen. Und ja, es wird dann wahrscheinlich immer noch die die Frontierungen Modelle geben, die es irgendwie in der Cloud besser können oder noch besser sind oder schneller oder weiß ich nicht. Aber von daher ist die Szenario für mich so, ich glaube, es wird mittelfristig halt keine trotzdem keine große Abwägung. So. Ja, es kostet Geld und ist eine Kostenstelle so, die man im Moment hat, aber ist natürlich auch für viele eine Produktivitätsschraube so, die man die man sonst auch noch nicht gesehen hat. Von daher, ja. Ich glaube, es ist schwierig zu planen, ist auf jeden Fall gut, sich damit zu beschaffen, beschäftigen was für Möglichkeiten. Man hat noch nicht einfach nur Beta Subscriptions zu kaufen. Dann werden wir sehen, wohin sich die Produkte entwickelt, weil irgendwann wird halt 'n Produkt kommen, die diesen Router vielleicht besser implementiert und dann wieder bessere Subscriptions anbieten kann, weil 60 Prozent der Querys, die Du halt schickst, gehen zu dem kleinen schnellen Modell, aber Du merkst es zum Beispiel gar nicht. Ja. Oder man nutzt, wie hieß das, Cave like, Caveman. Also dieses, gab mal son Cloud Code Skill, der gesagt hat, der das LDM redet oder Cloud soll nur noch wie wie Höhlenmenschen reden. Also praktisch so alles reduziert auch nur noch Inhalt und dass man wenig Kontext verliert, aber trotzdem irgendwie, weiß ich nicht was, 60 Prozent Token oder so ausgespart hat. Das würde ich dann ein Zwischenweg. Gut, sollte eine Überleitung auch werden zu Deep Sieg, denn da sind wir bei einem großen Modell, was aber doch deutlich günstiger ist. Genau, Deep Sieg 4 endlich jetzt. Ich mein, das würde ich glaube die letzten 6 Monate überall angeteasert son bisschen, endlich da mit 4 Modellen. Wir haben Deep Seek V4 Flash und Pro in der Base Variante, das heißt, man kann es selber fine tune und in der bereits getunten oder Post trend Variante. Die Pro Variante, weil wir die Größe erwähnt haben, hat jetzt 1.6 Trillionen. Das heißt, den Deutschen hätten wir Millionen Milliarden Billionen. Also einige Modelle einige Parameter. Auch wieder 'n MUI mit 49000000000 aktiven Parametern, so 1 darunter, Flash im Modell hat 284000000000 Parameter und 13 aktive. Das heißt, wir haben jetzt 2, 'n kleines, 'n großes. Sie haben einen schönes Paper dazu veröffentlicht. Das heißt, wenn ihr euch damit beschäftigt, sehr, sehr zu empfehlen durchzulesen, sie teilen auch wieder 'n bisschen 'n paar Dinge, wie sie Caching verbessert haben und wie Sie's trainiert haben, wie das Pre Training Dataset ausgesehen hat und Post Training auch. Neue Features, es ist jetzt 'n 1000000 Tokenkontext von bisher 128000. Sie sagen, durch die ganzen Verbesserungen haben Sie die Cash Size, also 10 nix reduziert. Das heißt, man braucht weniger Arbeitsspeicher, halt 'n längeren Kontext zu nutzen. Sie sagen von, man braucht A8 B 200 NVIDIA GPUs, damit man es komplett nutzen kann. Und da wir über Pricer geredet haben, was find ich das mit interessanterste ist, weil im Verhältnis zu Deep Sieg 3, was vor eineinhalb Jahren ungefähr rauskam, war ja damals der große Wow Effekt, okay, Open Modelle haben irgendwie aufgeholt und sind jetzt so gut wie die Frontier Modelle. Deep Sieg ist definitiv 'n Schritt in diese Richtung, aber es war jetzt nicht dieser Wow Effekt. Aber die Kosten sind der Wow Effekt. Und zwar kostet die pro Variante ein Dollar 74 pro Million Input Tokens Non Cash und 3 Dollar 48 pro 1000000 Output Tokens. Und die Flash Variante kostet 14 Cent pro 1000000 Input Tokens und 28 Cent pro 1000000 Output Tokens, wenn man dann Cachets hat, was ja, sag ich mal, zum Beispiel bei Coding relativ oft der Fall ist. Das heißt, wenn ich einen vorherigen Zug einfach diese Input Tokens noch mal hab, dann müssen die nicht neu berechnet werden. Da kosten dann die Tokens für die pro Variante 14 Cent und für die Flash Variante 2.8 Cent pro 1000000 Input Tokens. Das heißt, extreme Kostenersparnisse und auch Simon Willerson hat das mal 'n bisschen aufgefächert. Die Flash Variante ist günstiger, ist viermal günstiger im Output als GPT 5 Punkt 4 Nano und Gemini 3 Punkt 1 Flash Light, zehnmal günstiger als Gemini 3 Flash. Zwischen 12 und 15 Mal, ich weiß jetzt nicht genau das warte, Jimmill Live 5 Punkt 4 mini. Es ist zwanzigmal fast günstiger als Cloud Haiku, dann die Pro Variante, welche wirklich nah an das Frontier, sag ich mal, kommt, ist bis zu 4 beziehungsweise fast zehnmal günstiger als Opus oder GPT 5 Punkt 5 und Gemini. Also schon einiges und dann stellt sich halt die Frage so, hey, brauche ich dann das Beste vom Besten oder speicher ich halt fünfmal die Kosten und nutzt halt irgendwie DeepSeak, was auch mittlerweile auf allen gängigen Open Model Providern wie Fireworks oder halt auch im Open Right Router verfügbar ist für meine Arbeit. Und ich glaube, die Aussage, war das von Ihnen selbst, dass Sie gesagt haben, Sie haben das Gefühl, das ist so 3 bis 6 Monate hinter den großen anderen State of the Art modeln? Nee, ich meine, das sieht man ja ein bisschen. Also ich glaube, das letzte Beispiel war mit Kimmy K Kimmy K2, also die 2 Punkt 6 Variante, die kam ja vorn paar Wochen. Und die ist man son bisschen auf so nett 4 Punkt 5 Niveau, sag ich jetzt einfach mal. Klar, es ist immer, wie man das beschreibt und für welche Aufgaben und welche Modelle dies. Man kann immer noch sagen, dass Open Modelle alles, was mit Video zu tun hat bei Tinder Gemini sind, aber halt vor allem im Coding Bereich oder in dem Agentic Coding Bereich, ist es halt so, sagt man 3 zu 6 Monate Basis, kann man das nicht so genau sagen. Ja, okay. Und kannst Du noch mal kurz für mich recappen, weil Du ja gesagt hast, ein Open Modell. Also was ist davon jetzt Open? Also DeepSeak hat eine Open Source Lizenz, in dem Fall MIT. Aber man hat nur die Waits, also die die Parameter und den Inference Code. Das heißt, Du hast nicht irgendwie 'n Trainingscode, den der von DeepSeak genutzt wurde. Du hast auch nicht den, ich weiß nicht, ob DeepSeak intern eine andere Inference Engine hat, aber Du hast halt Support in Transformers, also in Hingingface, in VLM, in SGLING, in MLX, also in all den gängigen, sage ich mal, Open Source Frameworks, da hast Du Support, das Modell laufen zu lassen und auch trainieren zu können, in Transformers zumindest. Aber Du hast nicht den originalen Code, den die genutzt haben zum Trainieren oder für Inference. Du hast die Trainingsdaten nicht. Deswegen eher 'n Open Wait Modell als 'n Open Source, weil natürlich der Source Code für das Modell an an sich nicht nicht da ist. Okay. Und Sie bieten sozusagen als Service trotzdem an, dass man das eben daher kommen dann die Kosten. Das sind die offiziellen Kosten, wenn man sich über die Apinos. Du kannst ja aber auch Du könntest es theoretisch auch auf eigener Hardware Server Ja, ja, Du kannst einfach Amazon, Google Cloud, wo auch immer Du dein hast. Simon hat auch die Flash Variante auf 'nem MacBook M5 Pro mit 128 Gigabyte Arbeitsspeicher laufen lassen können in 'ner, also quantisiert, also in in vor. Und an sich die Modelways ist halt schon das die Pro Variante hat 865 Gigabyte und die Flash Variante 160 Gigabyte. Also man braucht schon 'n bisschen GPS, dann selber's zu betreiben zu können, aber man kann's klar, wenn ich irgendwie Amazon oder Azure oder wie auch immer Kunde bin und sag, hey, ich mach ich rechne hier gegen. Es gibt mittlerweile auch Benchmarks, wie viele, sag ich mal, Token, die Du erreichen kannst auf den verschiedenen NVIDIA Chips oder auch anderen Chip und dann kannst Du klar einfach Businessmodell mattemäßig rechnen. Man weiß aber, dass oder interessanterweise ist, dass DeepSeak auf der DeepSeak Cloud oder Plattform, wie auch immer sie's nennen, am günstigsten angeboten wird. Also Okay, das wäre nämlich jetzt die nächste Frage, wie wir jetzt noch mal irgendwie 'n Gefühl dafür hat, was was gängige Kosten sind, wenn wenn das nicht über die offizielle Ja, es ist schon relativ ähnlich. Too together hat jetzt, ich seh's grad hier auf Open Router 4.4 Dollar pro Output. Dann hast Du ganz viele kleineren Provider. Ich weiß jetzt nicht, wie stabil die sind, die haben dieselben Preise wie Deepseak, Aber klar, wenn ich irgendwie über Open Router geh, dann ist es mir am Ende egal und der Average Output Price sind 2 Dollar und 1, also. Aber das sind inkludiert, glaub auch Flashen Defy. Auf jeden Fall sehr, sehr, sehr, sehr günstig. Und ich glaub, wenn man halt irgendwie kein Coding Agent nutzt, sondern normale Anwendungen baut, irgendwas Data Processing oder andere Dinge, dann definitiv vielleicht mal anschauen und durchtesten. Ja. Cool. Sehr gut. Ich wollte noch mal ein Video empfehlen, von einem Interview mit Andre Caparthy. Und der Titel davon war ein bisschen from Wipe Coding to Agentic Engineering. Er ist auch derjenige, der irgendwie den Begriff Wipe Coding so ein bisschen geprägt hat damals und ins Spiel gebracht hat und wo es jetzt eben darum geht, okay zu verstehen oder zu gucken, so wo stehen wir denn aktuell in der Softwareentwicklung und und was sind da so die nächsten Schritte und das sind ja ist ein kurzweiliges Interview, das sind glaube ich 30 Minuten, was man sich mir gut angucken kann, weil ja auch finde ich ganz schöne Beispiele dafür bringt, so wie man zukünftig vielleicht eher über Softwareentwicklung nachdenken muss und was so ein bisschen dann auch noch die die nächste Stufe ist. Wo er irgendwie so sagt, okay, hey, Vibe Coding macht es eigentlich so breiter, also den Zugang breiter, ne? Das heißt, es ist einfach die die die Basis an Leuten, die sich kleine Apps, irgendwelche ja Helfer leihen und sowas erstellen können, die ist einfach viel viel größer geworden und hat da die Bar einfach nach oben gebracht durch. Und dann gibt's trotzdem nochmal irgendwo halt für die, die sich damit auskennen, ne? Weil Du ja irgendwo trotzdem sichere Software bauen musst, so in den meisten professionellen Kontexten. Und Wo eben vielleicht so ein buy coding und ich mach das mal schnell irgendwo dann auch an die Grenzen geht. Dann eben die Idee okay, wie wie kann man das in der heutigen Zeit mit Agenten halt möglichst gut machen. Und wo er sich auch selbst erwischt hat irgendwie, dass er da teilweise noch einfach an so alten Pragmatismen drin hängt, ne? Ein Beispiel, was er gemacht hat. Er hat ein Tool gebaut, was wenn er essen geht, er die Menükarte abfotografieren kann und die passt es dann mit OCR und generiert dann zu geben der Menüeinträge ein Bild, sodass er sich halt irgendwie vorstellen kann, wenn er in anderen Ländern unterwegs ist oder wie auch immer halt er die Gerichte nicht kennt, dass er so eine Vorstellung hat natürlich nicht, wie das in dem Restaurant aussieht, das Essen, aber wie das generisch aussieht. Und hat dann gesagt, na ja, das ist eigentlich irgendwie ein sehr altes altes Bild gewesen sozusagen. Okay, ich baue mir eine App, die jetzt diesen Fall hat, denn danach hat er einfach, ich glaub, Germany hat er genutzt, hat halt einfach in Germany die Menükarte reingepaastet und hat gesagt, hey, generieren wir mal Bilder für die Karte, wo dann im Hintergrund halt mit Nano Banana der Agent praktisch alles zusammengebaut hat und auf das Originalfoto, was er hatte, einfach die Bilder von den Gerichten da drauf gepackt hat. Und wo er so gesagt hat, ja, das ist halt der Schritt, ne, wo das dann noch eine irgendeine Stufe weitergeht, wo man vielleicht auch als Softwareentwickler oft da nicht drüber nachdenkt, dass es halt diese Möglichkeiten gibt und er eher halt irgendwie auch wenn es Infrastruktur geht oder so, eher halt gerne einen einen Prompt haben möchte, dem er einen Agenten gibt und nicht ein installier mal oder tipp diese Zeile ein in der CLI, irgendwas zu machen, sondern ich möchte irgendwie eine Anweisung haben. Das sind die Rahmenbedingungen, die gebe ich einem Agenten und der setzt es halt für mich Ja, da sind so 2 kleine Beispiele daraus, aber war auch ein paar paar ganz gute Sachen. Ich glaube, er endet auch mit einem Zitat, you can outsource you can't outsource you under standing. Wo er eben auch so sagt, okay, ne, es es braucht trotzdem noch jemanden, der da so ein bisschen die Einordnung und die Logik und die Gedanken und warum irgendwie außen rum hat und da ist okay, wie setze ich's und was sind die Rahmenbedingungen oder woran muss ich alles denken? Das sind eben Sachen, die ganz gut übernommen werden können. Ja, ich bin mal gespannt, ob das halt das Problem in langer Zukunft wird. Wir haben ja ganz am Anfang kurz über Einstellungen von Juniorentwickler geredet und ich mein, jemand, der schon, sag ich mal, der jemand, der Programmieren gelernt hat, bevor AI Coding da war, hat der hoffentlich viel von diesem Understanding, deswegen sind wir relativ schnell produktiv gewesen mit den Agents. Aber wenn halt das Understanding irgendwann verloren geht oder wenn man sich schwerer tut, dieses aufzubauen, weil ich halt einfach 'n bisschen betrügen kann und einfach reinhacke und schaue, was rauskommt und wenn's funktioniert, dann geht schon. Bin ich mal gespannt, wo wir in 2 bis 3 Jahren sind. Ja, in meinem Kopf ist immer noch auch so eine eine klaffende Lücke oder wo ich keine Antwort drauf hab so, ist auch, was soll man studieren beispielsweise, ne? Also ich glaube Also ich würde halt heute niemandem nach der Schule empfehlen, Informatik zu studieren, so. Ich glaube, dass das dass das nicht sinnvoll wäre und trotzdem glaube ich, dass einem ein Studium schon irgendwie was gebracht hat, ne, diese logischen Angehsweisen, das Abwägen von Quellen, Also ich meine, da haben wir Kriegt ja schon. Ist ja schon denken. Ja, also ne, ja. Irgendwas hat man ja da schon gemacht, aber ich weiß noch nicht so richtig, was man das in der Realität umsetzen soll. Ist das irgendwie ein allgemeiner Studiengang zu Intelligenz, Intellekt, keine Ahnung oder wie kann man das halt trotzdem irgendwie fördern, dass man, dass man diese Erfahrung hat, selbst wenn man halt dann nicht irgendwie in dem Studiengang die Grundlagen von c lernt, so. Ja. Na ja, mal sehen. Cursor SDK hast Du noch mitgebracht. Genau, ganz kurz, ganz ganz schnell Cursor kennen wir ja. Ad Coding Editor IDI eigentlich. Hat auch eine reli released vorn paar Monaten und hat jetzt ihre eigene SDK released. Vom Konzept her sehr ähnlich zu Cloud Agents SDK oder zu, sage ich mal, der Open e I Agents SDK mit ihrem Sandbox Environment. Ich hab 'n Agent, den ich importieren kann, den kann ich erstellen, dem kann ich sagen, welches Modell er nutzen soll, welche Tools er hat und wo der das Working Directory ist. Und dann kann ich ihn einfach prompten und der Agent fängt an und macht dieselben Ding eigentlich wie mein Editor. Was besonders interessant ist, ist, er nutzt denselben Agent Hannes, das heißt, wenn ihr irgendwie Cursor bevorzugt als Coding Environment, könnt ihr jetzt programmierbar, nicht programmier, also nicht den Podcast, sondern halt programmiertechnisch die STK nutzen. Sie sagen, es für zum Beispiel CI ist ganz interessant, wenn ich irgendwie halt irgendwelche Dinge mit 'nem Agent automatisiert testen möchte. Sie haben auch coole Cookbooks, wo man 'n App Builder zum Beispiel selber baut, also im Sinne von so ähnlich wie Lovable, halt als Anwendung umsetzen kann, wo dann der Agent drin ist, die ich dann für meine Mitarbeiter bereitstellen kann, wenn ich trotzdem noch bevorzuge, eine App zu bauen. Das heißt, dass ich einfach die Intelligenz oder den Agent aus der IDE rausziehen kann und halt in die Umgebungen packten, die ich bevorzuge. Könnte 'n Slack General sein, könnte keine Ahnung, welches Tool ich auch immer nutzt. Er hat 2, sage ich mal, Ausführungsmodis, was ihn ein bisschen unterscheidet zu allen anderen Agents SDKs, die wir bisher gesehen haben. Wenn ich zum Beispiel ja die Cloud Agent SDK nutze oder andere, dann ist es ja oftmals einfach in dem Environment, wo der Agent an sich oder das Binary läuft. Das heißt, wenn ich irgendwie 'n Redfile macht, dann macht er das auf dem Client oftmals irgendwie den lokalen PC oder so, den wir ausführen. In der Cursor SDK hat man aber auch die Möglichkeit Cloud als Environment anzugehen. Das heißt, ich kann GitHub Repository definieren, wenn ich meine Agent SDK erstelle und halt sagen, das soll in der Cloud laufen, dann führe ich das starte ich das lokal, aber der Agent sozusagen startet eine Cloud VM, wo er dann das Repository runterlegt, da die Aufgaben macht und dann halt wieder die die Events klar zu dem Client zurückstream, aber retro File, right File, irgendwelche Bash Commands laufen, ist nicht in derselben Umgebung, was relativ interessant ist, weil das son, ich sag mal 'n bisschen einen Mix auf der Cloud Agents SDK und Cloud Managed Agents und ich glaube, wir werden da halt noch viel mehr sehen, aber sie haben halt so ein Single Interface, das heißt, ich kann irgendwie lokal Dinge testen oder kann superschnell mit dem selben Interface irgendwas in der Cloud starten. Was ich glaub, was sehr interessant sein kann, wenn ich irgendwelche Dinge selber bau und das halt nativ in meine App integrier. Ja. Okay. Ja. Okay. Ja. Und ich kann natürlich jedes Modell nutzen, was im Cursor zur Verfügung steht. Kann ein API Key auf meinem Cursor Dashboard generieren. Aktuell ist es nur, also Token ist pay per Use. Ja. Ja. Okay. Ja, ich will dich gerade so. Du hast ja Du hast allen 2 Use Cases gesagt, so. Weil es brennt mir jetzt, wenn ich das höre, nicht so selbst unter den Fingernägeln zu sagen, okay, das ist das nächste Ding, was ich jetzt ausprobieren muss, so die Tasks umzusetzen oder die Sachen zu machen, die ich gerade mache. Also als als als Cookbooks- und Beispielanwendungen haben Sie 'n Kanban Board. Das heißt, ich hab eine UI Anbindung bisschen so ähnlich wie Trello und anstelle, dass ich meine Editor prompt oder mein Chatinterface prompt erstelle ich Trello Tasks, die dann der Agent aufsammelt und anfängt umzusetzen. Dieser App Builder, dass ich halt einfach wie, sag ich mal, Lovable oder wie auch immer halt 'n Ding hab, das halt Anwendungen bauen kann. Sie haben eine kleine Coding Seal eingebaut, wie Du die STK nutzen kannst, deine eigene Sealeiheit zu bauen. Dann haben sie noch 'n Deck Taskrunner und halt 'n kleines Quick Start. Also ich glaube, es geht halt wirklich, es ist immer noch alles immer sehr coding orientiert, wie wir Dinge bauen und wofür wir die nutzen und halt nicht irgendwie in dem Openclaw Horizont, aber ich meine, an sich könntest Du auch 'n Openclaw Version mit Cursor bauen, wo Du halt einfach dieses Gateway Bowser, das dann Telegram oder Whatsapp Nachrichten liest, dann Dinge irgendwo ausführen und dann die wieder antwortet. Kannst Du so was in der Art noch laufen aktuell? Nee. Also jetzt nicht privaten. Ja. Na ja, 2026 kann man noch hin. Ja. Entweder mit Google, das eben im Vorgespräch hatten wir das nämlich bei Google Cloud Next haben wir gestern noch eine Folge offenwohnen, da Jan ja dort war vor Ort und ich ein bisschen enttäuscht war und sagte, da war ja jetzt gar nichts Großes aus der AI Welt, was man irgendwie mitgeschnitten geschnitten hat, was von Google kam. Aber die Google IO, hat Philipp mir dann gesagt, ist auch gar nicht so weit weg in 2 Wochen. Vielleicht gibt es ja da dann noch mal was aus dem Hause Google, über das wir Spreuchen sprechen können. Genau, sonst haben wir intern hier bei Lotrum nächste Woche auch wieder unsere unsere vierte AI Week, wo wir uns alle Zeit nehmen zu explorieren und zu gucken und zu bauen. Vielleicht haben wir da auch 2, 3 Themen, die wir dann das nächste Mal noch mal mitnehmen können. Philipp, vielen Dank für deine Zeit und dass Du wieder hier bei uns warst, bei uns bist und dann wünsche ich euch allen eine schöne Zeit und bis bald. Macht's gut. 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0: Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen AI News, Kalenderwoche 19 im Jahr 2026. Wir sprechen heute über Deepseek in 1 neuen Version Nummer 4, über das Curcer SDK und ein bisschen über die Begriffe des Vibe Coding und Agentic engineerings. Ich bin Dennis Becker und bei mir ist Der Philipp, hallo. Moin Philipp. Müssen Sie wieder auf Fabi verzichten, der angeblich viel zu arbeiten hat.\n\nSpeaker 1: Arbeitet er nicht mehr bei Lotum?\n\nSpeaker 0: Dann doch, okay. Sehr gut. Fraute meint er schon 2 Sekunden, den zu verstehen. Doch doch, arbeitet doch bei Lotum, aber er hat gesagt, meine seine Nachricht war so was wie diese Woche noch mal aussetzen, aber dass er zuversichtlich ist. Bald wieder hier.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das ist meistens immer noch so, dass anfangen vom Ende. Das heißt, wenn Fabi dann nicht mehr mitkommt, dann wissen die Zuhörer auf jeden Fall Bescheid. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber wir haben so so wir müssen mal, keine Ahnung, darf man hier schon so direkt interne interne Gedanken, nein, sind's ja nicht programmierbar, ist ein öffentliches Format, was wir haben, aber natürlich schon die Überlegung, ne? Auch in den News ist ja jetzt viel mit AI einfach und ich meine, ein Framework Update wird einfach in der Zukunft nicht mehr so relevant sein, sondern die Sachen, die uns halt beschäftigen, sind AI und Softwareentwicklerin da draußen irgendwie hat halt mit AI zu tun und nutzt diese Tools, ob da mittelfristig halt diese Trennung zwischen AI News und News noch sinnvoll ist oder wenn's nicht sowieso auch die Themen gibt. Und vielleicht kann man es trotzdem ein bisschen irgendwie einmal theoretischer, einmal ein bisschen praktischer Anwendung. Muss man ein bisschen gucken. Falls ihr Feedback dazu habt, wie ihr euch gerne das Format vorstellt hier in der Programmierbar, schreibt uns gerne an Podcast at Programmierbar oder über unsere Webseite Programmier Punkt bar.\n\nSo. Jetzt kommt mir spontan der Übergang. Vielleicht machen wir Wir machen wir schweifen erst mal ganz kurz ab von der Agenda Fälle. Ich würde mal gerne interessieren, was dein Take dazu ist. Weil wir haben jetzt so intern bei uns Also Diskussion ist vielleicht ein bisschen übertrieben, aber so das erste Mal diese Gedanken, wenn wir jetzt ne eine Claw Subscription haben oder auch von mir aus eine Code Subscription, so dass wir immer mal häufiger jetzt in die Limits laufen von von den Abos.\n\nWir hatten es ja glaube ich das letzte Mal schon gesagt, so ja okay, muss man dann 2 Abos machen oder so. Aber irgendwo ne ist ja irgendwie merkt man auf jeden Fall, da war dieser Test von Anthropic, wo sie das Cloud Kohl aus dem aus dem Basic Plan rausgenommen haben. Kodex, was jetzt deutlich begrenzter ist von von von den Möglichkeiten, die in den Abos mit drin sind, dass es tendenziell ein bisschen teurer wird und ich meine, bis zum gewissen Grad kann man bei uns einfach irgendwie sagen, ja das ist alles okay, ne? Also ich meine, Du hast einen Mehrwert davon, ob das jetzt 100 Dollar kostet oder 200, 300, 400 wahrscheinlich auch 500 Dollar und ich würde auch so sagen, wie 1000 Dollar, die ein Nutzer im Monat noch zusätzlich hat, ist irgendwie diesen Mehrwert, den man aktuell dadurch spürt, irgendwie wehrt. Und trotzdem ist ja dann ein bisschen die Frage, okay, wohin geht da so ein bisschen die Zukunft?\n\nUnd da ist ja im Moment so ein bisschen, ja okay, wird einfach alles teurer und diese diese Pläne sind irgendwie subventioniert. Aber ist nicht auch gleichzeitig, also ist nicht der Marktdruck so groß, dass die Leute irgendwie die Modelle an die Leute bringen wollen und die Weiterentwicklung in Performance der Modelle und in und an Rechenleistung, irgendwie skaliert die nicht auch so, dass das Ich kann mir irgendwie nicht vorstellen, dass es exorbitant wird. Es gab irgendwie, hatten wir das schon in der letzten Folge? Muss ich ja auch für's hier oder privat diskutiert haben. Es gab irgendwie so einen x-Post, wo 1 gesagt hat, hey wir fangen jetzt wieder an Junior Leute einzustellen, weil die sind günstiger als unsere Token Kosten.\n\nWas ist dein Text so mittelfristig? Ich meine, wenn's jetzt bei kurzfristig, ne, werden so jetzt Zeiten gibt, wo es entweder zu billig ist oder von mir aus auch dann irgendwie zu teuer, aber wird das zukünftig eine relevante Überlegung sein, so?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also ich glaub, wir werden immer wieder darüber reden. Also man hat ganz stark gemerkt, dass vor allem in den letzten 6 Monaten die Subscriptions ja krass subventioniert waren. Man sieht's jetzt, glaub ich, vergittab war letzte Woche, die neue Subscriptions posiert haben und ihr Pricing Modelländerungen angekündigt haben, was ja, ich glaub, fast im Schnitt dreimal teurer beziehungsweise die Modelle sind dreimal teurer in deiner Subscription und Du bekommst jetzt nur noch sozusagen Credits für 20 Dollar und kannst sie dann aufnutzen. Also man sieht an allen Enden, dass halt Computing immer noch immer noch Computing constraints sind und dass halt Leute bereit sind, mehr Geld auszugeben für mehr Tokens. Das heißt, Du hast halt eine viel höhere Nachfrage als das Angebot und das drückt halt irgendwie den Preis 'n bisschen und ich mein für Antropic oder für andere und ich mein, ob mehr ist, sieht aktuell noch am besten aus, aber Du hast halt nur eine gewisse Anzahl an Computern und wenn Du nicht mehr hast, kannst Du halt auch nicht mehr Leute holen und irgendwann fängst Du dann den Preis halt anzupassen oder das mehr kalkulierbarer zu machen.\n\nUnd im gleichen Zug sehen wir aber halt auch, dass Modelle günstiger werden. Ich mein, ich hab jetzt zum Beispiel, wo ich in den USA unterwegs war, ich hab Jimmer a 26 b 4 a lokal genutzt auf meinem Macbook. Und klar ist es nicht irgendwie das beste Frontiermodell und macht alles hands off von alleine, aber es kann schon sehr, sehr viele Dinge sehr, sehr gut. Und ich glaub, wir werden halt immer son Auf und Ab haben. Also ich wär, wird fast sicher sein, dass die, wie sagt man da, die schöne Zeit von Claude Max 200 und irgendwas und so viel prompt, wie's nur geht, irgendwie jetzt langsam zu Ende geht.\n\nWir werden bessere, teurere Modelle bekommen, weil die halt auch trotzdem immer noch größer werden. Also man merkt es halt nicht so krass, aber es gibt ja sehr, sehr viele Andeutungen immer wieder, dass die Modelle halt trotzdem noch größer werden. Man sieht's ja auch jetzt im Open Source Bereich. Wir werden gleich über Deep Sieg 4 reden. Auf der anderen Seite siehst Du halt auch im Open Source Bereich, wie es kostengünstiger geht.\n\nAlso es wird 'n umkampfter Markt bleiben und ich glaub, als Unternehmen musst Du dich dann halt schon irgendwann mal damit befassen, okay, worauf fokussiere ich mich? Also, bin ich bereit, Providers eher zu wechseln oder bin ich bereit, irgendwie 6 Monate hinter allen zu sein, aber dafür fünfmal günstiger? Oder investiere ich vielleicht selber wirklich in eigene Rechenkapazität, weil Modelle jetzt so gut sind, dass es keine Ahnung ab 50 Mitarbeiter günstiger wird für mich, die Modelle selber zu rosten oder so. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, aber siehst Du irgendwo eine irgendwo einen Pfad, wo das wo man wirklich die Abwägung treffen muss, ob man da jetzt ein Mitarbeiter für einstellt oder eine Nein.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich mein, ich hab das davor auch nicht gesehen. Ich bin immer noch der starken Meinung, dass mit dass Du mehr Leute einstellen kannst, dass Du produktiver dadurch wirst und nicht halt also ganz vieles ja immer wieder mit Kosten reduzieren verbunden und ob ich dann, klar, ich kann halt Kosten nicht reduzieren, wenn ich mehr Kosten hab durch Token Useage. Also das verstehe ich dann schon wieder. Und ich mein, das ist bewegt man sich, glaub, eher an son bisschen übertriebenen Hype Social Media in dem dann. Ja, weil ich würde eben auch sagen, weißt\n\nSpeaker 0: Du, weil die die die Open Modelle oder die man lokalen Modelle, die man halt jetzt nutzen kann, die sind ja qualitativ eben auch schon so gut, dass da absehbar ist, dass es einen Pfad gibt zu auch noch besseren Modellen, weißt Du? Da ist ja jetzt auch nicht, warum sollte da jetzt gerade das Limit erreicht sein im im Mai 2026 und es nicht weitergehen. Und wenn Du das halt irgendwie siehst, wenn das noch ein Stückchen besser wird und das heutige Rand rutscht, dann kannst Du halt auch einen Großteil der aktuellen Codingsachen ja irgendwie auch lokal laufen lassen. Und ja, es wird dann wahrscheinlich immer noch die die Frontierungen Modelle geben, die es irgendwie in der Cloud besser können oder noch besser sind oder schneller oder weiß ich nicht. Aber von daher ist die Szenario für mich so, ich glaube, es wird mittelfristig halt keine trotzdem keine große Abwägung.\n\nSo. Ja, es kostet Geld und ist eine Kostenstelle so, die man im Moment hat, aber ist natürlich auch für viele eine Produktivitätsschraube so, die man die man sonst auch noch nicht gesehen hat. Von daher, ja. Ich glaube, es\n\nSpeaker 1: ist schwierig zu planen, ist auf jeden Fall gut, sich damit zu beschaffen, beschäftigen was für Möglichkeiten. Man hat noch nicht einfach nur Beta Subscriptions zu kaufen. Dann werden wir sehen, wohin sich die Produkte entwickelt, weil irgendwann wird halt 'n Produkt kommen, die diesen Router vielleicht besser implementiert und dann wieder bessere Subscriptions anbieten kann, weil 60 Prozent der Querys, die Du halt schickst, gehen zu dem kleinen schnellen Modell, aber Du merkst es zum Beispiel gar nicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Oder man nutzt, wie hieß das, Cave like, Caveman. Also dieses, gab mal son Cloud Code Skill, der gesagt hat, der das LDM redet oder Cloud soll nur noch wie wie Höhlenmenschen reden. Also praktisch so alles reduziert auch nur noch Inhalt und dass man wenig Kontext verliert, aber trotzdem irgendwie, weiß ich nicht was, 60 Prozent Token oder so ausgespart hat. Das würde ich dann ein Zwischenweg.\n\nGut, sollte eine Überleitung auch werden zu Deep Sieg, denn da sind wir bei einem großen Modell, was aber doch deutlich günstiger ist.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, Deep Sieg 4 endlich jetzt. Ich mein, das würde ich glaube die letzten 6 Monate überall angeteasert son bisschen, endlich da mit 4 Modellen. Wir haben Deep Seek V4 Flash und Pro in der Base Variante, das heißt, man kann es selber fine tune und in der bereits getunten oder Post trend Variante. Die Pro Variante, weil wir die Größe erwähnt haben, hat jetzt 1.6 Trillionen. Das heißt, den Deutschen hätten wir Millionen Milliarden Billionen.\n\nAlso einige Modelle einige Parameter. Auch wieder 'n MUI mit 49000000000 aktiven Parametern, so 1 darunter, Flash im Modell hat 284000000000 Parameter und 13 aktive. Das heißt, wir haben jetzt 2, 'n kleines, 'n großes. Sie haben einen schönes Paper dazu veröffentlicht. Das heißt, wenn ihr euch damit beschäftigt, sehr, sehr zu empfehlen durchzulesen, sie teilen auch wieder 'n bisschen 'n paar Dinge, wie sie Caching verbessert haben und wie Sie's trainiert haben, wie das Pre Training Dataset ausgesehen hat und Post Training auch.\n\nNeue Features, es ist jetzt 'n 1000000 Tokenkontext von bisher 128000. Sie sagen, durch die ganzen Verbesserungen haben Sie die Cash Size, also 10 nix reduziert. Das heißt, man braucht weniger Arbeitsspeicher, halt 'n längeren Kontext zu nutzen. Sie sagen von, man braucht A8 B 200 NVIDIA GPUs, damit man es komplett nutzen kann. Und da wir über Pricer geredet haben, was find ich das mit interessanterste ist, weil im Verhältnis zu Deep Sieg 3, was vor eineinhalb Jahren ungefähr rauskam, war ja damals der große Wow Effekt, okay, Open Modelle haben irgendwie aufgeholt und sind jetzt so gut wie die Frontier Modelle.\n\nDeep Sieg ist definitiv 'n Schritt in diese Richtung, aber es war jetzt nicht dieser Wow Effekt. Aber die Kosten sind der Wow Effekt. Und zwar kostet die pro Variante ein Dollar 74 pro Million Input Tokens Non Cash und 3 Dollar 48 pro 1000000 Output Tokens. Und die Flash Variante kostet 14 Cent pro 1000000 Input Tokens und 28 Cent pro 1000000 Output Tokens, wenn man dann Cachets hat, was ja, sag ich mal, zum Beispiel bei Coding relativ oft der Fall ist. Das heißt, wenn ich einen vorherigen Zug einfach diese Input Tokens noch mal hab, dann müssen die nicht neu berechnet werden.\n\nDa kosten dann die Tokens für die pro Variante 14 Cent und für die Flash Variante 2.8 Cent pro 1000000 Input Tokens. Das heißt, extreme Kostenersparnisse und auch Simon Willerson hat das mal 'n bisschen aufgefächert. Die Flash Variante ist günstiger, ist viermal günstiger im Output als GPT 5 Punkt 4 Nano und Gemini 3 Punkt 1 Flash Light, zehnmal günstiger als Gemini 3 Flash. Zwischen 12 und 15 Mal, ich weiß jetzt nicht genau das warte, Jimmill Live 5 Punkt 4 mini. Es ist zwanzigmal fast günstiger als Cloud Haiku, dann die Pro Variante, welche wirklich nah an das Frontier, sag ich mal, kommt, ist bis zu 4 beziehungsweise fast zehnmal günstiger als Opus oder GPT 5 Punkt 5 und Gemini.\n\nAlso schon einiges und dann stellt sich halt die Frage so, hey, brauche ich dann das Beste vom Besten oder speicher ich halt fünfmal die Kosten und nutzt halt irgendwie DeepSeak, was auch mittlerweile auf allen gängigen Open Model Providern wie Fireworks oder halt auch im Open Right Router verfügbar ist für meine Arbeit.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und ich glaube, die Aussage, war das von Ihnen selbst, dass Sie gesagt haben, Sie haben das Gefühl, das ist so 3 bis 6 Monate hinter den großen anderen State of the Art modeln? Nee, ich\n\nSpeaker 1: meine, das sieht man ja ein bisschen. Also ich glaube, das letzte Beispiel war mit Kimmy K Kimmy K2, also die 2 Punkt 6 Variante, die kam ja vorn paar Wochen. Und die ist man son bisschen auf so nett 4 Punkt 5 Niveau, sag ich jetzt einfach mal. Klar, es ist immer, wie man das beschreibt und für welche Aufgaben und welche Modelle dies. Man kann immer noch sagen, dass Open Modelle alles, was mit Video zu tun hat bei Tinder Gemini sind, aber halt vor allem im Coding Bereich oder in dem Agentic Coding Bereich, ist es halt so, sagt man 3 zu 6 Monate Basis, kann man das nicht so genau sagen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, okay. Und kannst Du noch mal kurz für mich recappen, weil Du ja gesagt hast, ein Open Modell. Also was ist davon jetzt Open?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also DeepSeak hat eine Open Source Lizenz, in dem Fall MIT. Aber man hat nur die Waits, also die die Parameter und den Inference Code. Das heißt, Du hast nicht irgendwie 'n Trainingscode, den der von DeepSeak genutzt wurde. Du hast auch nicht den, ich weiß nicht, ob DeepSeak intern eine andere Inference Engine hat, aber Du hast halt Support in Transformers, also in Hingingface, in VLM, in SGLING, in MLX, also in all den gängigen, sage ich mal, Open Source Frameworks, da hast Du Support, das Modell laufen zu lassen und auch trainieren zu können, in Transformers zumindest. Aber Du hast nicht den originalen Code, den die genutzt haben zum Trainieren oder für Inference.\n\nDu hast die Trainingsdaten nicht. Deswegen eher 'n Open Wait Modell als 'n Open Source, weil natürlich der Source Code für das Modell an\n\nSpeaker 0: an sich nicht nicht da ist. Okay. Und Sie bieten sozusagen als Service trotzdem an, dass man das eben daher kommen dann die Kosten. Das sind die offiziellen Kosten, wenn man sich über die Apinos. Du kannst\n\nSpeaker 1: ja aber auch\n\nSpeaker 0: Du könntest es theoretisch auch auf eigener Hardware\n\nSpeaker 1: Server Ja, ja, Du kannst einfach Amazon, Google Cloud, wo auch immer Du dein hast. Simon hat auch die Flash Variante auf 'nem MacBook M5 Pro mit 128 Gigabyte Arbeitsspeicher laufen lassen können in 'ner, also quantisiert, also in in vor. Und an sich die Modelways ist halt schon das die Pro Variante hat 865 Gigabyte und die Flash Variante 160 Gigabyte. Also man braucht schon 'n bisschen GPS, dann selber's zu betreiben zu können, aber man kann's klar, wenn ich irgendwie Amazon oder Azure oder wie auch immer Kunde bin und sag, hey, ich mach ich rechne hier gegen. Es gibt mittlerweile auch Benchmarks, wie viele, sag ich mal, Token, die Du erreichen kannst auf den verschiedenen NVIDIA Chips oder auch anderen Chip und dann kannst Du klar einfach Businessmodell mattemäßig rechnen.\n\nMan weiß aber, dass oder interessanterweise ist, dass DeepSeak auf der DeepSeak Cloud oder Plattform, wie auch immer sie's nennen, am günstigsten angeboten wird. Also Okay, das\n\nSpeaker 0: wäre nämlich jetzt die nächste Frage, wie wir jetzt noch mal irgendwie 'n Gefühl dafür hat, was was gängige Kosten sind, wenn wenn das nicht über die offizielle\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, es ist schon relativ ähnlich. Too together hat jetzt, ich seh's grad hier auf Open Router 4.4 Dollar pro Output. Dann hast Du ganz viele kleineren Provider. Ich weiß jetzt nicht, wie stabil die sind, die haben dieselben Preise wie Deepseak, Aber klar, wenn ich irgendwie über Open Router geh, dann ist es mir am Ende egal und\n\nSpeaker 0: der\n\nSpeaker 1: Average Output Price sind 2 Dollar und 1, also. Aber das sind inkludiert, glaub auch Flashen Defy. Auf jeden Fall sehr, sehr, sehr, sehr günstig. Und ich glaub, wenn man halt irgendwie kein Coding Agent nutzt, sondern normale Anwendungen baut, irgendwas Data Processing oder andere Dinge, dann definitiv vielleicht mal anschauen und durchtesten. Ja.\n\nCool. Sehr gut.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich wollte noch mal ein Video empfehlen, von einem Interview mit Andre Caparthy. Und der Titel davon war ein bisschen from Wipe Coding to Agentic Engineering. Er ist auch derjenige, der irgendwie den Begriff Wipe Coding so ein bisschen geprägt hat damals und ins Spiel gebracht hat und wo es jetzt eben darum geht, okay zu verstehen oder zu gucken, so wo stehen wir denn aktuell in der Softwareentwicklung und und was sind da so die nächsten Schritte und das sind ja ist ein kurzweiliges Interview, das sind glaube ich 30 Minuten, was man sich mir gut angucken kann, weil ja auch finde ich ganz schöne Beispiele dafür bringt, so wie man zukünftig vielleicht eher über Softwareentwicklung nachdenken muss und was so ein bisschen dann auch noch die die nächste Stufe ist. Wo er irgendwie so sagt, okay, hey, Vibe Coding macht es eigentlich so breiter, also den Zugang breiter, ne? Das heißt, es ist einfach die die die Basis an Leuten, die sich kleine Apps, irgendwelche ja Helfer leihen und sowas erstellen können, die ist einfach viel viel größer geworden und hat da die Bar einfach nach oben gebracht durch.\n\nUnd dann gibt's trotzdem nochmal irgendwo halt für die, die sich damit auskennen, ne? Weil Du ja irgendwo trotzdem sichere Software bauen musst, so in den meisten professionellen Kontexten. Und Wo eben vielleicht so ein buy coding und ich mach das mal schnell irgendwo dann auch an die Grenzen geht. Dann eben die Idee okay, wie wie kann man das in der heutigen Zeit mit Agenten halt möglichst gut machen. Und wo er sich auch selbst erwischt hat irgendwie, dass er da teilweise noch einfach an so alten Pragmatismen drin hängt, ne?\n\nEin Beispiel, was er gemacht hat. Er hat ein Tool gebaut, was wenn er essen geht, er die Menükarte abfotografieren kann und die passt es dann mit OCR und generiert dann zu geben der Menüeinträge ein Bild, sodass er sich halt irgendwie vorstellen kann, wenn er in anderen Ländern unterwegs ist oder wie auch immer halt er die Gerichte nicht kennt, dass er so eine Vorstellung hat natürlich nicht, wie das in dem Restaurant aussieht, das Essen, aber wie das generisch aussieht. Und hat dann gesagt, na ja, das ist eigentlich irgendwie ein sehr altes altes Bild gewesen sozusagen. Okay, ich baue mir eine App, die jetzt diesen Fall hat, denn danach hat er einfach, ich glaub, Germany hat er genutzt, hat halt einfach in Germany die Menükarte reingepaastet und hat gesagt, hey, generieren wir mal Bilder für die Karte, wo dann im Hintergrund halt mit Nano Banana der Agent praktisch alles zusammengebaut hat und auf das Originalfoto, was er hatte, einfach die Bilder von den Gerichten da drauf gepackt hat. Und wo er so gesagt hat, ja, das ist halt der Schritt, ne, wo das dann noch eine irgendeine Stufe weitergeht, wo man vielleicht auch als Softwareentwickler oft da nicht drüber nachdenkt, dass es halt diese Möglichkeiten gibt und er eher halt irgendwie auch wenn es Infrastruktur geht oder so, eher halt gerne einen einen Prompt haben möchte, dem er einen Agenten gibt und nicht ein installier mal oder tipp diese Zeile ein in der CLI, irgendwas zu machen, sondern ich möchte irgendwie eine Anweisung haben.\n\nDas sind die Rahmenbedingungen, die gebe ich einem Agenten und der setzt es halt für mich Ja, da sind so 2 kleine Beispiele daraus, aber war auch ein paar paar ganz gute Sachen. Ich glaube, er endet auch mit einem Zitat, you can outsource you can't outsource you under standing. Wo er eben auch so sagt, okay, ne, es es braucht trotzdem noch jemanden, der da so ein bisschen die Einordnung und die Logik und die Gedanken und warum irgendwie außen rum hat und da ist okay, wie setze ich's und was sind die Rahmenbedingungen oder woran muss ich alles denken? Das sind eben Sachen, die ganz gut übernommen werden können.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ich bin mal gespannt, ob das halt das Problem in langer Zukunft wird. Wir haben ja ganz am Anfang kurz über Einstellungen von Juniorentwickler geredet und ich mein, jemand, der schon, sag ich mal, der jemand, der Programmieren gelernt hat, bevor AI Coding da war, hat der hoffentlich viel von diesem Understanding, deswegen sind wir relativ schnell produktiv gewesen mit den Agents. Aber wenn halt das Understanding irgendwann verloren geht oder wenn man sich schwerer tut, dieses aufzubauen, weil ich halt einfach 'n bisschen betrügen kann und einfach reinhacke und schaue, was rauskommt und wenn's funktioniert, dann geht schon. Bin ich mal gespannt, wo wir in 2 bis 3 Jahren sind.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, in meinem Kopf ist immer noch auch so eine eine klaffende Lücke oder wo ich keine Antwort drauf hab so, ist auch, was soll man studieren beispielsweise, ne? Also ich glaube Also ich würde halt heute niemandem nach der Schule empfehlen, Informatik zu studieren, so. Ich glaube, dass das dass das nicht sinnvoll wäre und trotzdem glaube ich, dass einem ein Studium schon irgendwie was gebracht hat, ne, diese logischen Angehsweisen, das Abwägen von Quellen, Also ich meine, da haben wir Kriegt ja schon. Ist ja\n\nSpeaker 1: schon denken.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, also ne, ja. Irgendwas hat man ja\n\nSpeaker 1: da schon gemacht, aber ich weiß\n\nSpeaker 0: noch nicht so richtig, was man das in der Realität umsetzen soll. Ist das irgendwie ein allgemeiner Studiengang zu Intelligenz, Intellekt, keine Ahnung oder wie kann man das halt trotzdem irgendwie fördern, dass man, dass man diese Erfahrung hat, selbst wenn man halt dann nicht irgendwie in dem Studiengang die Grundlagen von c lernt, so. Ja. Na ja, mal sehen. Cursor SDK hast Du noch mitgebracht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, ganz kurz, ganz ganz schnell Cursor kennen wir ja. Ad Coding Editor IDI eigentlich. Hat auch eine reli released vorn paar Monaten und hat jetzt ihre eigene SDK released. Vom Konzept her sehr ähnlich zu Cloud Agents SDK oder zu, sage ich mal, der Open e I Agents SDK mit ihrem Sandbox Environment. Ich hab 'n Agent, den ich importieren kann, den kann ich erstellen, dem kann ich sagen, welches Modell er nutzen soll, welche Tools er hat und wo der das Working Directory ist.\n\nUnd dann kann ich ihn einfach prompten und der Agent fängt an und macht dieselben Ding eigentlich wie mein Editor. Was besonders interessant ist, ist, er nutzt denselben Agent Hannes, das heißt, wenn ihr irgendwie Cursor bevorzugt als Coding Environment, könnt ihr jetzt programmierbar, nicht programmier, also nicht den Podcast, sondern halt programmiertechnisch die STK nutzen. Sie sagen, es für zum Beispiel CI ist ganz interessant, wenn ich irgendwie halt irgendwelche Dinge mit 'nem Agent automatisiert testen möchte. Sie haben auch coole Cookbooks, wo man 'n App Builder zum Beispiel selber baut, also im Sinne von so ähnlich wie Lovable, halt als Anwendung umsetzen kann, wo dann der Agent drin ist, die ich dann für meine Mitarbeiter bereitstellen kann, wenn ich trotzdem noch bevorzuge, eine App zu bauen. Das heißt, dass ich einfach die Intelligenz oder den Agent aus der IDE rausziehen kann und halt in die Umgebungen packten, die ich bevorzuge.\n\nKönnte 'n Slack General sein, könnte keine Ahnung, welches Tool ich auch immer nutzt. Er hat 2, sage ich mal, Ausführungsmodis, was ihn ein bisschen unterscheidet zu allen anderen Agents SDKs, die wir bisher gesehen haben. Wenn ich zum Beispiel ja die Cloud Agent SDK nutze oder andere, dann ist es ja oftmals einfach in dem Environment, wo der Agent an sich oder das Binary läuft. Das heißt, wenn ich irgendwie 'n Redfile macht, dann macht er das auf dem Client oftmals irgendwie den lokalen PC oder so, den wir ausführen. In der Cursor SDK hat man aber auch die Möglichkeit Cloud als Environment anzugehen.\n\nDas heißt, ich kann GitHub Repository definieren, wenn ich meine Agent SDK erstelle und halt sagen, das soll in der Cloud laufen, dann führe ich das starte ich das lokal, aber der Agent sozusagen startet eine Cloud VM, wo er dann das Repository runterlegt, da die Aufgaben macht und dann halt wieder die die Events klar zu dem Client zurückstream, aber retro File, right File, irgendwelche Bash Commands laufen, ist nicht in derselben Umgebung, was relativ interessant ist, weil das son, ich sag mal 'n bisschen einen Mix auf der Cloud Agents SDK und Cloud Managed Agents und ich glaube, wir werden da halt noch viel mehr sehen, aber sie haben halt so ein Single Interface, das heißt, ich kann irgendwie lokal Dinge testen oder kann superschnell mit dem selben Interface irgendwas in der Cloud starten. Was ich glaub, was sehr interessant sein kann, wenn ich irgendwelche Dinge selber bau und das halt nativ in meine App integrier.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Okay. Ja. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Und ich kann natürlich jedes Modell nutzen, was im Cursor zur Verfügung steht. Kann ein API Key auf meinem Cursor Dashboard generieren. Aktuell ist es nur, also Token ist pay per Use. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Okay. Ja, ich will dich gerade so. Du hast ja Du hast allen 2 Use Cases gesagt, so. Weil es brennt mir jetzt, wenn ich das höre, nicht so selbst unter den Fingernägeln zu sagen, okay, das ist das nächste Ding, was ich jetzt ausprobieren muss, so die Tasks umzusetzen oder die Sachen zu machen, die ich gerade mache.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also als als als Cookbooks- und Beispielanwendungen haben Sie 'n Kanban Board. Das heißt, ich hab eine UI Anbindung bisschen so ähnlich wie Trello und anstelle, dass ich meine Editor prompt oder mein Chatinterface prompt erstelle ich Trello Tasks, die dann der Agent aufsammelt und anfängt umzusetzen. Dieser App Builder, dass ich halt einfach wie, sag ich mal, Lovable oder wie auch immer halt 'n Ding hab, das halt Anwendungen bauen kann. Sie haben eine kleine Coding Seal eingebaut, wie Du die STK nutzen kannst, deine eigene Sealeiheit zu bauen. Dann haben sie noch 'n Deck Taskrunner und halt 'n kleines Quick Start.\n\nAlso ich glaube, es geht halt wirklich, es ist immer noch alles immer sehr coding orientiert, wie wir Dinge bauen und wofür wir die nutzen und halt nicht irgendwie in dem Openclaw Horizont, aber ich meine, an sich könntest Du auch 'n Openclaw Version mit Cursor bauen, wo Du halt einfach dieses Gateway Bowser, das dann Telegram oder Whatsapp Nachrichten liest, dann Dinge irgendwo ausführen und dann die wieder antwortet.\n\nSpeaker 0: Kannst Du so\n\nSpeaker 1: was in der Art noch laufen aktuell? Nee. Also jetzt nicht privaten. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Na ja, 2026 kann man noch hin. Ja. Entweder mit Google, das eben im Vorgespräch hatten wir das nämlich bei Google Cloud Next haben wir gestern noch eine Folge offenwohnen, da Jan ja dort war vor Ort und ich ein bisschen enttäuscht war und sagte, da war ja jetzt gar nichts Großes aus der AI Welt, was man irgendwie mitgeschnitten geschnitten hat, was von Google kam. Aber die Google IO, hat Philipp mir dann gesagt, ist auch gar nicht so weit weg in 2 Wochen. Vielleicht gibt es ja da dann noch mal was aus dem Hause Google, über das wir Spreuchen sprechen können.\n\nGenau, sonst haben wir intern hier bei Lotrum nächste Woche auch wieder unsere unsere vierte AI Week, wo wir uns alle Zeit nehmen zu explorieren und zu gucken und zu bauen. Vielleicht haben wir da auch 2, 3 Themen, die wir dann das nächste Mal noch mal mitnehmen können. Philipp, vielen Dank für deine Zeit und dass Du wieder hier bei uns warst, bei uns bist und dann wünsche ich euch allen eine schöne Zeit und bis bald. Macht's gut. Tschau.",[13911,13923,13928,13941,13949,13962,13974,13987,14000,14007,14020,14033,14046,14056,14061,14074,14087,14097,14106,14118,14123,14136,14148,14161,14174,14187,14192,14199,14212,14221,14233,14240,14252,14257,14262,14275,14282,14286,14297,14300,14311,14315,14327,14340,14352,14363,14374,14385,14390,14396,14400,14411,14423,14435,14447,14454,14461,14472,14483,14495,14499,14503,14512,14524],{"sentences":13912,"speaker":107,"num_words":616,"start":104,"end":371},[13913,13915,13917,13919,13921],{"text":13914,"start":104,"end":162},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen AI News, Kalenderwoche 19 im Jahr 2026.",{"text":13916,"start":167,"end":270},"Wir sprechen heute über Deepseek in 1 neuen Version Nummer 4, über das Curcer SDK und ein bisschen über die Begriffe des Vibe Coding und Agentic engineerings.",{"text":13918,"start":275,"end":313},"Ich bin Dennis Becker und bei mir ist Der Philipp, hallo.",{"text":13920,"start":318,"end":323},"Moin Philipp.",{"text":13922,"start":328,"end":371},"Müssen Sie wieder auf Fabi verzichten, der angeblich viel zu arbeiten hat.",{"sentences":13924,"speaker":86,"num_words":13927,"start":376,"end":395},[13925],{"text":13926,"start":376,"end":395},"Arbeitet er nicht mehr bei Lotum?",6,{"sentences":13929,"speaker":107,"num_words":13940,"start":400,"end":576},[13930,13932,13934,13936,13938],{"text":13931,"start":400,"end":413},"Dann doch, okay.",{"text":13933,"start":418,"end":424},"Sehr gut.",{"text":13935,"start":429,"end":463},"Fraute meint er schon 2 Sekunden, den zu verstehen.",{"text":13937,"start":467,"end":563},"Doch doch, arbeitet doch bei Lotum, aber er hat gesagt, meine seine Nachricht war so was wie diese Woche noch mal aussetzen, aber dass er zuversichtlich ist.",{"text":13939,"start":568,"end":576},"Bald wieder hier.",44,{"sentences":13942,"speaker":86,"num_words":13948,"start":576,"end":677},[13943,13945,13947],{"text":13944,"start":576,"end":619},"Ja, das ist meistens immer noch so, dass anfangen vom Ende.",{"text":13946,"start":619,"end":672},"Das heißt, wenn Fabi dann nicht mehr mitkommt, dann wissen die Zuhörer auf jeden Fall Bescheid.",{"text":679,"start":676,"end":677},28,{"sentences":13950,"speaker":107,"num_words":13961,"start":681,"end":1222},[13951,13953,13955,13957,13959],{"text":13952,"start":681,"end":809},"Aber wir haben so so wir müssen mal, keine Ahnung, darf man hier schon so direkt interne interne Gedanken, nein, sind's ja nicht programmierbar, ist ein öffentliches Format, was wir haben, aber natürlich schon die Überlegung, ne?",{"text":13954,"start":809,"end":1036},"Auch in den News ist ja jetzt viel mit AI einfach und ich meine, ein Framework Update wird einfach in der Zukunft nicht mehr so relevant sein, sondern die Sachen, die uns halt beschäftigen, sind AI und Softwareentwicklerin da draußen irgendwie hat halt mit AI zu tun und nutzt diese Tools, ob da mittelfristig halt diese Trennung zwischen AI News und News noch sinnvoll ist oder wenn's nicht sowieso auch die Themen gibt.",{"text":13956,"start":1036,"end":1093},"Und vielleicht kann man es trotzdem ein bisschen irgendwie einmal theoretischer, einmal ein bisschen praktischer Anwendung.",{"text":13958,"start":1098,"end":1112},"Muss man ein bisschen gucken.",{"text":13960,"start":1112,"end":1222},"Falls ihr Feedback dazu habt, wie ihr euch gerne das Format vorstellt hier in der Programmierbar, schreibt uns gerne an Podcast at Programmierbar oder über unsere Webseite Programmier Punkt bar.",161,{"sentences":13963,"speaker":107,"num_words":13973,"start":1226,"end":1508},[13964,13965,13967,13969,13971],{"text":1229,"start":1226,"end":1227},{"text":13966,"start":1231,"end":1250},"Jetzt kommt mir spontan der Übergang.",{"text":13968,"start":1250,"end":1304},"Vielleicht machen wir Wir machen wir schweifen erst mal ganz kurz ab von der Agenda Fälle.",{"text":13970,"start":1304,"end":1340},"Ich würde mal gerne interessieren, was dein Take dazu ist.",{"text":13972,"start":1344,"end":1508},"Weil wir haben jetzt so intern bei uns Also Diskussion ist vielleicht ein bisschen übertrieben, aber so das erste Mal diese Gedanken, wenn wir jetzt ne eine Claw Subscription haben oder auch von mir aus eine Code Subscription, so dass wir immer mal häufiger jetzt in die Limits laufen von von den Abos.",86,{"sentences":13975,"speaker":107,"num_words":13986,"start":1508,"end":2006},[13976,13978,13980,13982,13984],{"text":13977,"start":1508,"end":1573},"Wir hatten es ja glaube ich das letzte Mal schon gesagt, so ja okay, muss man dann 2 Abos machen oder so.",{"text":13979,"start":1573,"end":1669},"Aber irgendwo ne ist ja irgendwie merkt man auf jeden Fall, da war dieser Test von Anthropic, wo sie das Cloud Kohl aus dem aus dem Basic Plan rausgenommen haben.",{"text":13981,"start":1674,"end":1804},"Kodex, was jetzt deutlich begrenzter ist von von von den Möglichkeiten, die in den Abos mit drin sind, dass es tendenziell ein bisschen teurer wird und ich meine, bis zum gewissen Grad kann man bei uns einfach irgendwie sagen, ja das ist alles okay, ne?",{"text":13983,"start":1804,"end":1957},"Also ich meine, Du hast einen Mehrwert davon, ob das jetzt 100 Dollar kostet oder 200, 300, 400 wahrscheinlich auch 500 Dollar und ich würde auch so sagen, wie 1000 Dollar, die ein Nutzer im Monat noch zusätzlich hat, ist irgendwie diesen Mehrwert, den man aktuell dadurch spürt, irgendwie wehrt.",{"text":13985,"start":1961,"end":2006},"Und trotzdem ist ja dann ein bisschen die Frage, okay, wohin geht da so ein bisschen die Zukunft?",165,{"sentences":13988,"speaker":107,"num_words":13999,"start":2006,"end":2358},[13989,13991,13993,13995,13997],{"text":13990,"start":2006,"end":2065},"Und da ist ja im Moment so ein bisschen, ja okay, wird einfach alles teurer und diese diese Pläne sind irgendwie subventioniert.",{"text":13992,"start":2069,"end":2218},"Aber ist nicht auch gleichzeitig, also ist nicht der Marktdruck so groß, dass die Leute irgendwie die Modelle an die Leute bringen wollen und die Weiterentwicklung in Performance der Modelle und in und an Rechenleistung, irgendwie skaliert die nicht auch so, dass das Ich kann mir irgendwie nicht vorstellen, dass es exorbitant wird.",{"text":13994,"start":2218,"end":2250},"Es gab irgendwie, hatten wir das schon in der letzten Folge?",{"text":13996,"start":2250,"end":2280},"Muss ich ja auch für's hier oder privat diskutiert haben.",{"text":13998,"start":2280,"end":2358},"Es gab irgendwie so einen x-Post, wo 1 gesagt hat, hey wir fangen jetzt wieder an Junior Leute einzustellen, weil die sind günstiger als unsere Token Kosten.",123,{"sentences":14001,"speaker":107,"num_words":14006,"start":2362,"end":2487},[14002,14004],{"text":14003,"start":2362,"end":2379},"Was ist dein Text so mittelfristig?",{"text":14005,"start":2379,"end":2487},"Ich meine, wenn's jetzt bei kurzfristig, ne, werden so jetzt Zeiten gibt, wo es entweder zu billig ist oder von mir aus auch dann irgendwie zu teuer, aber wird das zukünftig eine relevante Überlegung sein, so?",42,{"sentences":14008,"speaker":86,"num_words":14019,"start":2491,"end":3038},[14009,14011,14013,14015,14017],{"text":14010,"start":2491,"end":2516},"Also ich glaub, wir werden immer wieder darüber reden.",{"text":14012,"start":2516,"end":2575},"Also man hat ganz stark gemerkt, dass vor allem in den letzten 6 Monaten die Subscriptions ja krass subventioniert waren.",{"text":14014,"start":2575,"end":2744},"Man sieht's jetzt, glaub ich, vergittab war letzte Woche, die neue Subscriptions posiert haben und ihr Pricing Modelländerungen angekündigt haben, was ja, ich glaub, fast im Schnitt dreimal teurer beziehungsweise die Modelle sind dreimal teurer in deiner Subscription und Du bekommst jetzt nur noch sozusagen Credits für 20 Dollar und kannst sie dann aufnutzen.",{"text":14016,"start":2744,"end":2821},"Also man sieht an allen Enden, dass halt Computing immer noch immer noch Computing constraints sind und dass halt Leute bereit sind, mehr Geld auszugeben für mehr Tokens.",{"text":14018,"start":2821,"end":3038},"Das heißt, Du hast halt eine viel höhere Nachfrage als das Angebot und das drückt halt irgendwie den Preis 'n bisschen und ich mein für Antropic oder für andere und ich mein, ob mehr ist, sieht aktuell noch am besten aus, aber Du hast halt nur eine gewisse Anzahl an Computern und wenn Du nicht mehr hast, kannst Du halt auch nicht mehr Leute holen und irgendwann fängst Du dann den Preis halt anzupassen oder das mehr kalkulierbarer zu machen.",191,{"sentences":14021,"speaker":86,"num_words":14032,"start":3041,"end":3366},[14022,14024,14026,14028,14030],{"text":14023,"start":3041,"end":3071},"Und im gleichen Zug sehen wir aber halt auch, dass Modelle günstiger werden.",{"text":14025,"start":3071,"end":3150},"Ich mein, ich hab jetzt zum Beispiel, wo ich in den USA unterwegs war, ich hab Jimmer a 26 b 4 a lokal genutzt auf meinem Macbook.",{"text":14027,"start":3154,"end":3228},"Und klar ist es nicht irgendwie das beste Frontiermodell und macht alles hands off von alleine, aber es kann schon sehr, sehr viele Dinge sehr, sehr gut.",{"text":14029,"start":3230,"end":3261},"Und ich glaub, wir werden halt immer son Auf und Ab haben.",{"text":14031,"start":3261,"end":3366},"Also ich wär, wird fast sicher sein, dass die, wie sagt man da, die schöne Zeit von Claude Max 200 und irgendwas und so viel prompt, wie's nur geht, irgendwie jetzt langsam zu Ende geht.",114,{"sentences":14034,"speaker":86,"num_words":14045,"start":3370,"end":3565},[14035,14037,14039,14041,14043],{"text":14036,"start":3370,"end":3409},"Wir werden bessere, teurere Modelle bekommen, weil die halt auch trotzdem immer noch größer werden.",{"text":14038,"start":3409,"end":3471},"Also man merkt es halt nicht so krass, aber es gibt ja sehr, sehr viele Andeutungen immer wieder, dass die Modelle halt trotzdem noch größer werden.",{"text":14040,"start":3471,"end":3496},"Man sieht's ja auch jetzt im Open Source Bereich.",{"text":14042,"start":3496,"end":3520},"Wir werden gleich über Deep Sieg 4 reden.",{"text":14044,"start":3523,"end":3565},"Auf der anderen Seite siehst Du halt auch im Open Source Bereich, wie es kostengünstiger geht.",74,{"sentences":14047,"speaker":86,"num_words":14055,"start":3567,"end":3808},[14048,14050,14052,14054],{"text":14049,"start":3567,"end":3645},"Also es wird 'n umkampfter Markt bleiben und ich glaub, als Unternehmen musst Du dich dann halt schon irgendwann mal damit befassen, okay, worauf fokussiere ich mich?",{"text":14051,"start":3645,"end":3712},"Also, bin ich bereit, Providers eher zu wechseln oder bin ich bereit, irgendwie 6 Monate hinter allen zu sein, aber dafür fünfmal günstiger?",{"text":14053,"start":3715,"end":3806},"Oder investiere ich vielleicht selber wirklich in eigene Rechenkapazität, weil Modelle jetzt so gut sind, dass es keine Ahnung ab 50 Mitarbeiter günstiger wird für mich, die Modelle selber zu rosten oder so.",{"text":679,"start":3806,"end":3808},84,{"sentences":14057,"speaker":107,"num_words":14060,"start":3811,"end":3889},[14058],{"text":14059,"start":3811,"end":3889},"Ja, aber siehst Du irgendwo eine irgendwo einen Pfad, wo das wo man wirklich die Abwägung treffen muss, ob man da jetzt ein Mitarbeiter für einstellt oder eine Nein.",29,{"sentences":14062,"speaker":86,"num_words":14073,"start":3892,"end":4159},[14063,14065,14067,14069,14071],{"text":14064,"start":3892,"end":3913},"Ich mein, ich hab das davor auch nicht gesehen.",{"text":14066,"start":3913,"end":4054},"Ich bin immer noch der starken Meinung, dass mit dass Du mehr Leute einstellen kannst, dass Du produktiver dadurch wirst und nicht halt also ganz vieles ja immer wieder mit Kosten reduzieren verbunden und ob ich dann, klar, ich kann halt Kosten nicht reduzieren, wenn ich mehr Kosten hab durch Token Useage.",{"text":14068,"start":4054,"end":4073},"Also das verstehe ich dann schon wieder.",{"text":14070,"start":4076,"end":4135},"Und ich mein, das ist bewegt man sich, glaub, eher an son bisschen übertriebenen Hype Social Media in dem dann.",{"text":14072,"start":4135,"end":4159},"Ja, weil ich würde eben auch sagen, weißt",96,{"sentences":14075,"speaker":107,"num_words":14086,"start":4159,"end":4575},[14076,14078,14080,14082,14084],{"text":14077,"start":4159,"end":4274},"Du, weil die die die Open Modelle oder die man lokalen Modelle, die man halt jetzt nutzen kann, die sind ja qualitativ eben auch schon so gut, dass da absehbar ist, dass es einen Pfad gibt zu auch noch besseren Modellen, weißt Du?",{"text":14079,"start":4274,"end":4340},"Da ist ja jetzt auch nicht, warum sollte da jetzt gerade das Limit erreicht sein im im Mai 2026 und es nicht weitergehen.",{"text":14081,"start":4344,"end":4442},"Und wenn Du das halt irgendwie siehst, wenn das noch ein Stückchen besser wird und das heutige Rand rutscht, dann kannst Du halt auch einen Großteil der aktuellen Codingsachen ja irgendwie auch lokal laufen lassen.",{"text":14083,"start":4442,"end":4519},"Und ja, es wird dann wahrscheinlich immer noch die die Frontierungen Modelle geben, die es irgendwie in der Cloud besser können oder noch besser sind oder schneller oder weiß ich nicht.",{"text":14085,"start":4522,"end":4575},"Aber von daher ist die Szenario für mich so, ich glaube, es wird mittelfristig halt keine trotzdem keine große Abwägung.",152,{"sentences":14088,"speaker":107,"num_words":14096,"start":4575,"end":4682},[14089,14090,14092,14094],{"text":1229,"start":4575,"end":4579},{"text":14091,"start":4579,"end":4664},"Ja, es kostet Geld und ist eine Kostenstelle so, die man im Moment hat, aber ist natürlich auch für viele eine Produktivitätsschraube so, die man die man sonst auch noch nicht gesehen hat.",{"text":14093,"start":4664,"end":4673},"Von daher, ja.",{"text":14095,"start":4676,"end":4682},"Ich glaube, es",40,{"sentences":14098,"speaker":86,"num_words":14105,"start":4682,"end":4902},[14099,14101,14103],{"text":14100,"start":4682,"end":4728},"ist schwierig zu planen, ist auf jeden Fall gut, sich damit zu beschaffen, beschäftigen was für Möglichkeiten.",{"text":14102,"start":4728,"end":4757},"Man hat noch nicht einfach nur Beta Subscriptions zu kaufen.",{"text":14104,"start":4760,"end":4902},"Dann werden wir sehen, wohin sich die Produkte entwickelt, weil irgendwann wird halt 'n Produkt kommen, die diesen Router vielleicht besser implementiert und dann wieder bessere Subscriptions anbieten kann, weil 60 Prozent der Querys, die Du halt schickst, gehen zu dem kleinen schnellen Modell, aber Du merkst es zum Beispiel gar nicht.",79,{"sentences":14107,"speaker":107,"num_words":14117,"start":4904,"end":5110},[14108,14109,14111,14113,14115],{"text":679,"start":4904,"end":4905},{"text":14110,"start":4905,"end":4940},"Oder man nutzt, wie hieß das, Cave like, Caveman.",{"text":14112,"start":4944,"end":5014},"Also dieses, gab mal son Cloud Code Skill, der gesagt hat, der das LDM redet oder Cloud soll nur noch wie wie Höhlenmenschen reden.",{"text":14114,"start":5017,"end":5090},"Also praktisch so alles reduziert auch nur noch Inhalt und dass man wenig Kontext verliert, aber trotzdem irgendwie, weiß ich nicht was, 60 Prozent Token oder so ausgespart hat.",{"text":14116,"start":5093,"end":5110},"Das würde ich dann ein Zwischenweg.",69,{"sentences":14119,"speaker":107,"num_words":14122,"start":5114,"end":5175},[14120],{"text":14121,"start":5114,"end":5175},"Gut, sollte eine Überleitung auch werden zu Deep Sieg, denn da sind wir bei einem großen Modell, was aber doch deutlich günstiger ist.",23,{"sentences":14124,"speaker":86,"num_words":14135,"start":5178,"end":5410},[14125,14127,14129,14131,14133],{"text":14126,"start":5178,"end":5192},"Genau, Deep Sieg 4 endlich jetzt.",{"text":14128,"start":5192,"end":5245},"Ich mein, das würde ich glaube die letzten 6 Monate überall angeteasert son bisschen, endlich da mit 4 Modellen.",{"text":14130,"start":5248,"end":5339},"Wir haben Deep Seek V4 Flash und Pro in der Base Variante, das heißt, man kann es selber fine tune und in der bereits getunten oder Post trend Variante.",{"text":14132,"start":5343,"end":5379},"Die Pro Variante, weil wir die Größe erwähnt haben, hat jetzt 1.6 Trillionen.",{"text":14134,"start":5383,"end":5410},"Das heißt, den Deutschen hätten wir Millionen Milliarden Billionen.",76,{"sentences":14137,"speaker":86,"num_words":14055,"start":5414,"end":5671},[14138,14140,14142,14144,14146],{"text":14139,"start":5414,"end":5429},"Also einige Modelle einige Parameter.",{"text":14141,"start":5433,"end":5499},"Auch wieder 'n MUI mit 49000000000 aktiven Parametern, so 1 darunter, Flash im Modell hat 284000000000 Parameter und 13 aktive.",{"text":14143,"start":5499,"end":5528},"Das heißt, wir haben jetzt 2, 'n kleines, 'n großes.",{"text":14145,"start":5528,"end":5548},"Sie haben einen schönes Paper dazu veröffentlicht.",{"text":14147,"start":5548,"end":5671},"Das heißt, wenn ihr euch damit beschäftigt, sehr, sehr zu empfehlen durchzulesen, sie teilen auch wieder 'n bisschen 'n paar Dinge, wie sie Caching verbessert haben und wie Sie's trainiert haben, wie das Pre Training Dataset ausgesehen hat und Post Training auch.",{"sentences":14149,"speaker":86,"num_words":14160,"start":5674,"end":5982},[14150,14152,14154,14156,14158],{"text":14151,"start":5674,"end":5709},"Neue Features, es ist jetzt 'n 1000000 Tokenkontext von bisher 128000.",{"text":14153,"start":5713,"end":5758},"Sie sagen, durch die ganzen Verbesserungen haben Sie die Cash Size, also 10 nix reduziert.",{"text":14155,"start":5758,"end":5790},"Das heißt, man braucht weniger Arbeitsspeicher, halt 'n längeren Kontext zu nutzen.",{"text":14157,"start":5790,"end":5839},"Sie sagen von, man braucht A8 B 200 NVIDIA GPUs, damit man es komplett nutzen kann.",{"text":14159,"start":5843,"end":5982},"Und da wir über Pricer geredet haben, was find ich das mit interessanterste ist, weil im Verhältnis zu Deep Sieg 3, was vor eineinhalb Jahren ungefähr rauskam, war ja damals der große Wow Effekt, okay, Open Modelle haben irgendwie aufgeholt und sind jetzt so gut wie die Frontier Modelle.",103,{"sentences":14162,"speaker":86,"num_words":14173,"start":5985,"end":6262},[14163,14165,14167,14169,14171],{"text":14164,"start":5985,"end":6025},"Deep Sieg ist definitiv 'n Schritt in diese Richtung, aber es war jetzt nicht dieser Wow Effekt.",{"text":14166,"start":6028,"end":6043},"Aber die Kosten sind der Wow Effekt.",{"text":14168,"start":6043,"end":6112},"Und zwar kostet die pro Variante ein Dollar 74 pro Million Input Tokens Non Cash und 3 Dollar 48 pro 1000000 Output Tokens.",{"text":14170,"start":6115,"end":6211},"Und die Flash Variante kostet 14 Cent pro 1000000 Input Tokens und 28 Cent pro 1000000 Output Tokens, wenn man dann Cachets hat, was ja, sag ich mal, zum Beispiel bei Coding relativ oft der Fall ist.",{"text":14172,"start":6211,"end":6262},"Das heißt, wenn ich einen vorherigen Zug einfach diese Input Tokens noch mal hab, dann müssen die nicht neu berechnet werden.",105,{"sentences":14175,"speaker":86,"num_words":14186,"start":6262,"end":6617},[14176,14178,14180,14182,14184],{"text":14177,"start":6262,"end":6313},"Da kosten dann die Tokens für die pro Variante 14 Cent und für die Flash Variante 2.8 Cent pro 1000000 Input Tokens.",{"text":14179,"start":6313,"end":6359},"Das heißt, extreme Kostenersparnisse und auch Simon Willerson hat das mal 'n bisschen aufgefächert.",{"text":14181,"start":6362,"end":6446},"Die Flash Variante ist günstiger, ist viermal günstiger im Output als GPT 5 Punkt 4 Nano und Gemini 3 Punkt 1 Flash Light, zehnmal günstiger als Gemini 3 Flash.",{"text":14183,"start":6450,"end":6505},"Zwischen 12 und 15 Mal, ich weiß jetzt nicht genau das warte, Jimmill Live 5 Punkt 4 mini.",{"text":14185,"start":6509,"end":6617},"Es ist zwanzigmal fast günstiger als Cloud Haiku, dann die Pro Variante, welche wirklich nah an das Frontier, sag ich mal, kommt, ist bis zu 4 beziehungsweise fast zehnmal günstiger als Opus oder GPT 5 Punkt 5 und Gemini.",122,{"sentences":14188,"speaker":86,"num_words":14191,"start":6621,"end":6771},[14189],{"text":14190,"start":6621,"end":6771},"Also schon einiges und dann stellt sich halt die Frage so, hey, brauche ich dann das Beste vom Besten oder speicher ich halt fünfmal die Kosten und nutzt halt irgendwie DeepSeak, was auch mittlerweile auf allen gängigen Open Model Providern wie Fireworks oder halt auch im Open Right Router verfügbar ist für meine Arbeit.",54,{"sentences":14193,"speaker":107,"num_words":14198,"start":6774,"end":6881},[14194,14196],{"text":14195,"start":6774,"end":6871},"Und ich glaube, die Aussage, war das von Ihnen selbst, dass Sie gesagt haben, Sie haben das Gefühl, das ist so 3 bis 6 Monate hinter den großen anderen State of the Art modeln?",{"text":14197,"start":6876,"end":6881},"Nee, ich",36,{"sentences":14200,"speaker":86,"num_words":14211,"start":6881,"end":7182},[14201,14203,14205,14207,14209],{"text":14202,"start":6881,"end":6899},"meine, das sieht man ja ein bisschen.",{"text":14204,"start":6899,"end":6967},"Also ich glaube, das letzte Beispiel war mit Kimmy K Kimmy K2, also die 2 Punkt 6 Variante, die kam ja vorn paar Wochen.",{"text":14206,"start":6971,"end":7011},"Und die ist man son bisschen auf so nett 4 Punkt 5 Niveau, sag ich jetzt einfach mal.",{"text":14208,"start":7011,"end":7052},"Klar, es ist immer, wie man das beschreibt und für welche Aufgaben und welche Modelle dies.",{"text":14210,"start":7056,"end":7182},"Man kann immer noch sagen, dass Open Modelle alles, was mit Video zu tun hat bei Tinder Gemini sind, aber halt vor allem im Coding Bereich oder in dem Agentic Coding Bereich, ist es halt so, sagt man 3 zu 6 Monate Basis, kann man das nicht so genau sagen.",115,{"sentences":14213,"speaker":107,"num_words":14220,"start":7185,"end":7250},[14214,14216,14218],{"text":14215,"start":7185,"end":7191},"Ja, okay.",{"text":14217,"start":7193,"end":7234},"Und kannst Du noch mal kurz für mich recappen, weil Du ja gesagt hast, ein Open Modell.",{"text":14219,"start":7234,"end":7250},"Also was ist davon jetzt Open?",25,{"sentences":14222,"speaker":86,"num_words":14211,"start":7254,"end":7582},[14223,14225,14227,14229,14231],{"text":14224,"start":7254,"end":7285},"Also DeepSeak hat eine Open Source Lizenz, in dem Fall MIT.",{"text":14226,"start":7289,"end":7329},"Aber man hat nur die Waits, also die die Parameter und den Inference Code.",{"text":14228,"start":7329,"end":7368},"Das heißt, Du hast nicht irgendwie 'n Trainingscode, den der von DeepSeak genutzt wurde.",{"text":14230,"start":7368,"end":7540},"Du hast auch nicht den, ich weiß nicht, ob DeepSeak intern eine andere Inference Engine hat, aber Du hast halt Support in Transformers, also in Hingingface, in VLM, in SGLING, in MLX, also in all den gängigen, sage ich mal, Open Source Frameworks, da hast Du Support, das Modell laufen zu lassen und auch trainieren zu können, in Transformers zumindest.",{"text":14232,"start":7544,"end":7582},"Aber Du hast nicht den originalen Code, den die genutzt haben zum Trainieren oder für Inference.",{"sentences":14234,"speaker":86,"num_words":14239,"start":7585,"end":7646},[14235,14237],{"text":14236,"start":7585,"end":7597},"Du hast die Trainingsdaten nicht.",{"text":14238,"start":7597,"end":7646},"Deswegen eher 'n Open Wait Modell als 'n Open Source, weil natürlich der Source Code für das Modell an",24,{"sentences":14241,"speaker":107,"num_words":14251,"start":7646,"end":7742},[14242,14244,14245,14247,14249],{"text":14243,"start":7646,"end":7660},"an sich nicht nicht da ist.",{"text":7664,"start":7662,"end":7663},{"text":14246,"start":7663,"end":7705},"Und Sie bieten sozusagen als Service trotzdem an, dass man das eben daher kommen dann die Kosten.",{"text":14248,"start":7705,"end":7735},"Das sind die offiziellen Kosten, wenn man sich über die Apinos.",{"text":14250,"start":7739,"end":7742},"Du kannst",37,{"sentences":14253,"speaker":86,"num_words":14256,"start":7742,"end":7750},[14254],{"text":14255,"start":7742,"end":7750},"ja aber auch",3,{"sentences":14258,"speaker":107,"num_words":14261,"start":7750,"end":7773},[14259],{"text":14260,"start":7750,"end":7773},"Du könntest es theoretisch auch auf eigener Hardware",8,{"sentences":14263,"speaker":86,"num_words":14274,"start":7773,"end":8163},[14264,14266,14268,14270,14272],{"text":14265,"start":7773,"end":7821},"Server Ja, ja, Du kannst einfach Amazon, Google Cloud, wo auch immer Du dein hast.",{"text":14267,"start":7825,"end":7905},"Simon hat auch die Flash Variante auf 'nem MacBook M5 Pro mit 128 Gigabyte Arbeitsspeicher laufen lassen können in 'ner, also quantisiert, also in in vor.",{"text":14269,"start":7909,"end":7965},"Und an sich die Modelways ist halt schon das die Pro Variante hat 865 Gigabyte und die Flash Variante 160 Gigabyte.",{"text":14271,"start":7968,"end":8070},"Also man braucht schon 'n bisschen GPS, dann selber's zu betreiben zu können, aber man kann's klar, wenn ich irgendwie Amazon oder Azure oder wie auch immer Kunde bin und sag, hey, ich mach ich rechne hier gegen.",{"text":14273,"start":8070,"end":8163},"Es gibt mittlerweile auch Benchmarks, wie viele, sag ich mal, Token, die Du erreichen kannst auf den verschiedenen NVIDIA Chips oder auch anderen Chip und dann kannst Du klar einfach Businessmodell mattemäßig rechnen.",133,{"sentences":14276,"speaker":86,"num_words":14281,"start":8166,"end":8242},[14277,14279],{"text":14278,"start":8166,"end":8230},"Man weiß aber, dass oder interessanterweise ist, dass DeepSeak auf der DeepSeak Cloud oder Plattform, wie auch immer sie's nennen, am günstigsten angeboten wird.",{"text":14280,"start":8232,"end":8242},"Also Okay, das",27,{"sentences":14283,"speaker":107,"num_words":13948,"start":8242,"end":8320},[14284],{"text":14285,"start":8242,"end":8320},"wäre nämlich jetzt die nächste Frage, wie wir jetzt noch mal irgendwie 'n Gefühl dafür hat, was was gängige Kosten sind, wenn wenn das nicht über die offizielle",{"sentences":14287,"speaker":86,"num_words":14296,"start":8322,"end":8479},[14288,14290,14292,14294],{"text":14289,"start":8322,"end":8337},"Ja, es ist schon relativ ähnlich.",{"text":14291,"start":8337,"end":8380},"Too together hat jetzt, ich seh's grad hier auf Open Router 4.4 Dollar pro Output.",{"text":14293,"start":8383,"end":8398},"Dann hast Du ganz viele kleineren Provider.",{"text":14295,"start":8398,"end":8479},"Ich weiß jetzt nicht, wie stabil die sind, die haben dieselben Preise wie Deepseak, Aber klar, wenn ich irgendwie über Open Router geh, dann ist es mir am Ende egal und",59,{"sentences":14298,"speaker":107,"num_words":86,"start":8481,"end":8482},[14299],{"text":302,"start":8481,"end":8482},{"sentences":14301,"speaker":86,"num_words":14191,"start":8482,"end":8647},[14302,14304,14306,14308,14310],{"text":14303,"start":8482,"end":8511},"Average Output Price sind 2 Dollar und 1, also.",{"text":14305,"start":8515,"end":8539},"Aber das sind inkludiert, glaub auch Flashen Defy.",{"text":14307,"start":8539,"end":8560},"Auf jeden Fall sehr, sehr, sehr, sehr günstig.",{"text":14309,"start":8564,"end":8642},"Und ich glaub, wenn man halt irgendwie kein Coding Agent nutzt, sondern normale Anwendungen baut, irgendwas Data Processing oder andere Dinge, dann definitiv vielleicht mal anschauen und durchtesten.",{"text":679,"start":8646,"end":8647},{"sentences":14312,"speaker":86,"num_words":14256,"start":8651,"end":8659},[14313,14314],{"text":8653,"start":8651,"end":8652},{"text":13933,"start":8655,"end":8659},{"sentences":14316,"speaker":107,"num_words":14019,"start":8661,"end":9210},[14317,14319,14321,14323,14325],{"text":14318,"start":8661,"end":8703},"Ich wollte noch mal ein Video empfehlen, von einem Interview mit Andre Caparthy.",{"text":14320,"start":8707,"end":8745},"Und der Titel davon war ein bisschen from Wipe Coding to Agentic Engineering.",{"text":14322,"start":8749,"end":9045},"Er ist auch derjenige, der irgendwie den Begriff Wipe Coding so ein bisschen geprägt hat damals und ins Spiel gebracht hat und wo es jetzt eben darum geht, okay zu verstehen oder zu gucken, so wo stehen wir denn aktuell in der Softwareentwicklung und und was sind da so die nächsten Schritte und das sind ja ist ein kurzweiliges Interview, das sind glaube ich 30 Minuten, was man sich mir gut angucken kann, weil ja auch finde ich ganz schöne Beispiele dafür bringt, so wie man zukünftig vielleicht eher über Softwareentwicklung nachdenken muss und was so ein bisschen dann auch noch die die nächste Stufe ist.",{"text":14324,"start":9045,"end":9098},"Wo er irgendwie so sagt, okay, hey, Vibe Coding macht es eigentlich so breiter, also den Zugang breiter, ne?",{"text":14326,"start":9098,"end":9210},"Das heißt, es ist einfach die die die Basis an Leuten, die sich kleine Apps, irgendwelche ja Helfer leihen und sowas erstellen können, die ist einfach viel viel größer geworden und hat da die Bar einfach nach oben gebracht durch.",{"sentences":14328,"speaker":107,"num_words":14339,"start":9213,"end":9463},[14329,14331,14333,14335,14337],{"text":14330,"start":9213,"end":9251},"Und dann gibt's trotzdem nochmal irgendwo halt für die, die sich damit auskennen, ne?",{"text":14332,"start":9251,"end":9296},"Weil Du ja irgendwo trotzdem sichere Software bauen musst, so in den meisten professionellen Kontexten.",{"text":14334,"start":9296,"end":9350},"Und Wo eben vielleicht so ein buy coding und ich mach das mal schnell irgendwo dann auch an die Grenzen geht.",{"text":14336,"start":9353,"end":9404},"Dann eben die Idee okay, wie wie kann man das in der heutigen Zeit mit Agenten halt möglichst gut machen.",{"text":14338,"start":9404,"end":9463},"Und wo er sich auch selbst erwischt hat irgendwie, dass er da teilweise noch einfach an so alten Pragmatismen drin hängt, ne?",92,{"sentences":14341,"speaker":107,"num_words":2483,"start":9466,"end":10172},[14342,14344,14346,14348,14350],{"text":14343,"start":9466,"end":9481},"Ein Beispiel, was er gemacht hat.",{"text":14345,"start":9481,"end":9691},"Er hat ein Tool gebaut, was wenn er essen geht, er die Menükarte abfotografieren kann und die passt es dann mit OCR und generiert dann zu geben der Menüeinträge ein Bild, sodass er sich halt irgendwie vorstellen kann, wenn er in anderen Ländern unterwegs ist oder wie auch immer halt er die Gerichte nicht kennt, dass er so eine Vorstellung hat natürlich nicht, wie das in dem Restaurant aussieht, das Essen, aber wie das generisch aussieht.",{"text":14347,"start":9694,"end":9737},"Und hat dann gesagt, na ja, das ist eigentlich irgendwie ein sehr altes altes Bild gewesen sozusagen.",{"text":14349,"start":9737,"end":9940},"Okay, ich baue mir eine App, die jetzt diesen Fall hat, denn danach hat er einfach, ich glaub, Germany hat er genutzt, hat halt einfach in Germany die Menükarte reingepaastet und hat gesagt, hey, generieren wir mal Bilder für die Karte, wo dann im Hintergrund halt mit Nano Banana der Agent praktisch alles zusammengebaut hat und auf das Originalfoto, was er hatte, einfach die Bilder von den Gerichten da drauf gepackt hat.",{"text":14351,"start":9940,"end":10172},"Und wo er so gesagt hat, ja, das ist halt der Schritt, ne, wo das dann noch eine irgendeine Stufe weitergeht, wo man vielleicht auch als Softwareentwickler oft da nicht drüber nachdenkt, dass es halt diese Möglichkeiten gibt und er eher halt irgendwie auch wenn es Infrastruktur geht oder so, eher halt gerne einen einen Prompt haben möchte, dem er einen Agenten gibt und nicht ein installier mal oder tipp diese Zeile ein in der CLI, irgendwas zu machen, sondern ich möchte irgendwie eine Anweisung haben.",{"sentences":14353,"speaker":107,"num_words":14362,"start":10174,"end":10470},[14354,14356,14358,14360],{"text":14355,"start":10174,"end":10256},"Das sind die Rahmenbedingungen, die gebe ich einem Agenten und der setzt es halt für mich Ja, da sind so 2 kleine Beispiele daraus, aber war auch ein paar paar ganz gute Sachen.",{"text":14357,"start":10256,"end":10311},"Ich glaube, er endet auch mit einem Zitat, you can outsource you can't outsource you under standing.",{"text":14359,"start":10315,"end":10443},"Wo er eben auch so sagt, okay, ne, es es braucht trotzdem noch jemanden, der da so ein bisschen die Einordnung und die Logik und die Gedanken und warum irgendwie außen rum hat und da ist okay, wie setze ich's und was sind die Rahmenbedingungen oder woran muss ich alles denken?",{"text":14361,"start":10447,"end":10470},"Das sind eben Sachen, die ganz gut übernommen werden können.",111,{"sentences":14364,"speaker":86,"num_words":14373,"start":10473,"end":10780},[14365,14367,14369,14371],{"text":14366,"start":10473,"end":10510},"Ja, ich bin mal gespannt, ob das halt das Problem in langer Zukunft wird.",{"text":14368,"start":10510,"end":10652},"Wir haben ja ganz am Anfang kurz über Einstellungen von Juniorentwickler geredet und ich mein, jemand, der schon, sag ich mal, der jemand, der Programmieren gelernt hat, bevor AI Coding da war, hat der hoffentlich viel von diesem Understanding, deswegen sind wir relativ schnell produktiv gewesen mit den Agents.",{"text":14370,"start":10656,"end":10753},"Aber wenn halt das Understanding irgendwann verloren geht oder wenn man sich schwerer tut, dieses aufzubauen, weil ich halt einfach 'n bisschen betrügen kann und einfach reinhacke und schaue, was rauskommt und wenn's funktioniert, dann geht schon.",{"text":14372,"start":10753,"end":10780},"Bin ich mal gespannt, wo wir in 2 bis 3 Jahren sind.",112,{"sentences":14375,"speaker":107,"num_words":14384,"start":10783,"end":11024},[14376,14378,14380,14382],{"text":14377,"start":10783,"end":10865},"Ja, in meinem Kopf ist immer noch auch so eine eine klaffende Lücke oder wo ich keine Antwort drauf hab so, ist auch, was soll man studieren beispielsweise, ne?",{"text":14379,"start":10865,"end":10910},"Also ich glaube Also ich würde halt heute niemandem nach der Schule empfehlen, Informatik zu studieren, so.",{"text":14381,"start":10910,"end":11017},"Ich glaube, dass das dass das nicht sinnvoll wäre und trotzdem glaube ich, dass einem ein Studium schon irgendwie was gebracht hat, ne, diese logischen Angehsweisen, das Abwägen von Quellen, Also ich meine, da haben wir Kriegt ja schon.",{"text":14383,"start":11017,"end":11024},"Ist ja",87,{"sentences":14386,"speaker":86,"num_words":14389,"start":11024,"end":11031},[14387],{"text":14388,"start":11024,"end":11031},"schon denken.",2,{"sentences":14391,"speaker":107,"num_words":14261,"start":11031,"end":11054},[14392,14394],{"text":14393,"start":11031,"end":11043},"Ja, also ne, ja.",{"text":14395,"start":11046,"end":11054},"Irgendwas hat man ja",{"sentences":14397,"speaker":86,"num_words":13927,"start":11054,"end":11068},[14398],{"text":14399,"start":11054,"end":11068},"da schon gemacht, aber ich weiß",{"sentences":14401,"speaker":107,"num_words":616,"start":11068,"end":11251},[14402,14404,14406,14407,14409],{"text":14403,"start":11068,"end":11100},"noch nicht so richtig, was man das in der Realität umsetzen soll.",{"text":14405,"start":11100,"end":11219},"Ist das irgendwie ein allgemeiner Studiengang zu Intelligenz, Intellekt, keine Ahnung oder wie kann man das halt trotzdem irgendwie fördern, dass man, dass man diese Erfahrung hat, selbst wenn man halt dann nicht irgendwie in dem Studiengang die Grundlagen von c lernt, so.",{"text":679,"start":11221,"end":11222},{"text":14408,"start":11222,"end":11233},"Na ja, mal sehen.",{"text":14410,"start":11233,"end":11251},"Cursor SDK hast Du noch mitgebracht.",{"sentences":14412,"speaker":86,"num_words":13973,"start":11255,"end":11500},[14413,14415,14417,14419,14421],{"text":14414,"start":11255,"end":11281},"Genau, ganz kurz, ganz ganz schnell Cursor kennen wir ja.",{"text":14416,"start":11285,"end":11303},"Ad Coding Editor IDI eigentlich.",{"text":14418,"start":11306,"end":11344},"Hat auch eine reli released vorn paar Monaten und hat jetzt ihre eigene SDK released.",{"text":14420,"start":11348,"end":11418},"Vom Konzept her sehr ähnlich zu Cloud Agents SDK oder zu, sage ich mal, der Open e I Agents SDK mit ihrem Sandbox Environment.",{"text":14422,"start":11418,"end":11500},"Ich hab 'n Agent, den ich importieren kann, den kann ich erstellen, dem kann ich sagen, welches Modell er nutzen soll, welche Tools er hat und wo der das Working Directory ist.",{"sentences":14424,"speaker":86,"num_words":14086,"start":11500,"end":11907},[14425,14427,14429,14431,14433],{"text":14426,"start":11500,"end":11550},"Und dann kann ich ihn einfach prompten und der Agent fängt an und macht dieselben Ding eigentlich wie mein Editor.",{"text":14428,"start":11553,"end":11657},"Was besonders interessant ist, ist, er nutzt denselben Agent Hannes, das heißt, wenn ihr irgendwie Cursor bevorzugt als Coding Environment, könnt ihr jetzt programmierbar, nicht programmier, also nicht den Podcast, sondern halt programmiertechnisch die STK nutzen.",{"text":14430,"start":11657,"end":11713},"Sie sagen, es für zum Beispiel CI ist ganz interessant, wenn ich irgendwie halt irgendwelche Dinge mit 'nem Agent automatisiert testen möchte.",{"text":14432,"start":11713,"end":11840},"Sie haben auch coole Cookbooks, wo man 'n App Builder zum Beispiel selber baut, also im Sinne von so ähnlich wie Lovable, halt als Anwendung umsetzen kann, wo dann der Agent drin ist, die ich dann für meine Mitarbeiter bereitstellen kann, wenn ich trotzdem noch bevorzuge, eine App zu bauen.",{"text":14434,"start":11840,"end":11907},"Das heißt, dass ich einfach die Intelligenz oder den Agent aus der IDE rausziehen kann und halt in die Umgebungen packten, die ich bevorzuge.",{"sentences":14436,"speaker":86,"num_words":14173,"start":11911,"end":12191},[14437,14439,14441,14443,14445],{"text":14438,"start":11911,"end":11950},"Könnte 'n Slack General sein, könnte keine Ahnung, welches Tool ich auch immer nutzt.",{"text":14440,"start":11953,"end":12011},"Er hat 2, sage ich mal, Ausführungsmodis, was ihn ein bisschen unterscheidet zu allen anderen Agents SDKs, die wir bisher gesehen haben.",{"text":14442,"start":12013,"end":12086},"Wenn ich zum Beispiel ja die Cloud Agent SDK nutze oder andere, dann ist es ja oftmals einfach in dem Environment, wo der Agent an sich oder das Binary läuft.",{"text":14444,"start":12086,"end":12150},"Das heißt, wenn ich irgendwie 'n Redfile macht, dann macht er das auf dem Client oftmals irgendwie den lokalen PC oder so, den wir ausführen.",{"text":14446,"start":12153,"end":12191},"In der Cursor SDK hat man aber auch die Möglichkeit Cloud als Environment anzugehen.",{"sentences":14448,"speaker":86,"num_words":14453,"start":12191,"end":12616},[14449,14451],{"text":14450,"start":12191,"end":12561},"Das heißt, ich kann GitHub Repository definieren, wenn ich meine Agent SDK erstelle und halt sagen, das soll in der Cloud laufen, dann führe ich das starte ich das lokal, aber der Agent sozusagen startet eine Cloud VM, wo er dann das Repository runterlegt, da die Aufgaben macht und dann halt wieder die die Events klar zu dem Client zurückstream, aber retro File, right File, irgendwelche Bash Commands laufen, ist nicht in derselben Umgebung, was relativ interessant ist, weil das son, ich sag mal 'n bisschen einen Mix auf der Cloud Agents SDK und Cloud Managed Agents und ich glaube, wir werden da halt noch viel mehr sehen, aber sie haben halt so ein Single Interface, das heißt, ich kann irgendwie lokal Dinge testen oder kann superschnell mit dem selben Interface irgendwas in der Cloud starten.",{"text":14452,"start":12564,"end":12616},"Was ich glaub, was sehr interessant sein kann, wenn ich irgendwelche Dinge selber bau und das halt nativ in meine App integrier.",158,{"sentences":14455,"speaker":107,"num_words":14460,"start":12619,"end":12631},[14456,14457,14458,14459],{"text":679,"start":12619,"end":12620},{"text":7664,"start":12624,"end":12625},{"text":679,"start":12625,"end":12627},{"text":7664,"start":12627,"end":12631},4,{"sentences":14462,"speaker":86,"num_words":14471,"start":12631,"end":12739},[14463,14464,14466,14468,14470],{"text":679,"start":12631,"end":12634},{"text":14465,"start":12638,"end":12672},"Und ich kann natürlich jedes Modell nutzen, was im Cursor zur Verfügung steht.",{"text":14467,"start":12676,"end":12703},"Kann ein API Key auf meinem Cursor Dashboard generieren.",{"text":14469,"start":12706,"end":12734},"Aktuell ist es nur, also Token ist pay per Use.",{"text":679,"start":12738,"end":12739},34,{"sentences":14473,"speaker":107,"num_words":14482,"start":12741,"end":12900},[14474,14475,14476,14478,14480],{"text":679,"start":12741,"end":12742},{"text":7664,"start":12744,"end":12745},{"text":14477,"start":12749,"end":12765},"Ja, ich will dich gerade so.",{"text":14479,"start":12765,"end":12795},"Du hast ja Du hast allen 2 Use Cases gesagt, so.",{"text":14481,"start":12795,"end":12900},"Weil es brennt mir jetzt, wenn ich das höre, nicht so selbst unter den Fingernägeln zu sagen, okay, das ist das nächste Ding, was ich jetzt ausprobieren muss, so die Tasks umzusetzen oder die Sachen zu machen, die ich gerade mache.",60,{"sentences":14484,"speaker":86,"num_words":14160,"start":12903,"end":13180},[14485,14487,14489,14491,14493],{"text":14486,"start":12903,"end":12941},"Also als als als Cookbooks- und Beispielanwendungen haben Sie 'n Kanban 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