[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":55894},["ShallowReactive",2],{"\u002Fpodcast\u002Fdeep-dive-212-w3c-technical-architecture-group-mit-christian-liebel":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":150,"speakerCount":151,"relatedPodcasts":152,"transcript":153},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"youtube_url":14,"cover_image":15,"banner_image":27,"speakers":37,"members":64,"picks_of_the_day":97,"tags":146,"tagsPrepared":147,"speakersPrepared":148},"6c6a3a2a-adaf-4be6-bafc-e06f201313c4","2026-07-21T04:00:00.000Z","deep_dive","212","W3C Technical Architecture Group mit Christian Liebel","deep-dive-212-w3c-technical-architecture-group-mit-christian-liebel","\u003Cp data-start=\"0\" data-end=\"443\">Wie entstehen eigentlich die Webstandards, die unseren Browser jeden Tag antreiben? In dieser Folge sprechen wir mit Christian Liebel, Mitglied der \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Ftag.w3.org\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">W3C Technical Architecture Group (TAG)\u003C\u002Fa>, über die Gremien, Prozesse und Entscheidungen hinter dem World Wide Web. Wir schauen darauf, wie neue Web-APIs entstehen, warum Standardisierung oft Jahre dauert und welche Rolle Entwickler:innen dabei spielen können.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp data-start=\"445\" data-end=\"1025\">Christian erzählt, wie ihn sein Weg von den ersten eigenen Websites über Progressive Web Apps bis in eines der wichtigsten Architektur-Gremien des Webs geführt hat. Dabei wird deutlich, dass die Zukunft des Webs nicht ausschließlich von großen Tech-Konzernen bestimmt wird, sondern auch von engagierten Menschen aus der Community. Wir sprechen darüber, wie die TAG arbeitet, warum Konsens wichtiger ist als Mehrheiten und weshalb gute Architekturentscheidungen oft deutlich mehr Perspektiven berücksichtigen müssen, als man zunächst vermutet.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp data-start=\"1027\" data-end=\"1461\">Außerdem werfen wir einen Blick auf \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Ftag.w3.org\u002Ffindings\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">aktuelle Themen\u003C\u002Fa> wie lokale KI im Browser, digitale Identitäten, WebMCP und die Frage, wie das Web mit nativen Plattformen Schritt halten kann. Christian erklärt, welche Spannungsfelder zwischen Browser-Herstellern, Entwickler:innen, Regulatoren und Nutzer:innen entstehen und warum genau diese Diskussionen entscheidend für die Zukunft des offenen Webs sind.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp data-start=\"1463\" data-end=\"1697\" data-is-last-node=\"\" data-is-only-node=\"\">Eine Folge für alle, die verstehen wollen, wer die technischen Leitplanken des Webs setzt, wie Standards wirklich entstehen und warum sich jede Stimme aus der Entwickler:innen-Community einbringen kann.\u003C\u002Fp>",null,"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.buzzsprout.com\u002F176239\u002Fepisodes\u002F19519360-deep-dive-212-w3c-technical-architecture-group-mit-christian-liebel.mp3","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002Fwatch?v=ZqSKuO8exNA",{"id":16,"title":17,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":18,"filename_download":19,"metadata":20,"type":21,"filesize":22,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":23,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":24,"uploaded_on":25,"folder":12,"width":26,"height":26,"charset":12,"duration":12},"0a3f004e-3f9a-4079-9cce-2500dc5544b4","212 Ig Fb Christian Liebel","0a3f004e-3f9a-4079-9cce-2500dc5544b4.png","212_ig_fb_Christian_Liebel.png",{},"image\u002Fpng","2157894","2026-06-12T09:29:47.683Z","11a655b6-bcfc-4c6c-a13c-68189e38edb9","2026-06-12T09:29:47.680Z",1500,{"id":28,"title":29,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":30,"filename_download":31,"metadata":32,"type":21,"filesize":33,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":34,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":24,"uploaded_on":35,"folder":12,"width":36,"height":36,"charset":12,"duration":12},"9fe21e95-8fcb-40e9-83ca-4ba3c315a37f","Christian Liebel Transparent","9fe21e95-8fcb-40e9-83ca-4ba3c315a37f.png","Christian_Liebel_transparent.png",{},"1544440","2026-06-12T09:23:25.662Z","2026-06-12T09:23:25.659Z",1024,[38],{"speaker":39},{"id":40,"slug":41,"academic_title":12,"occupation":42,"first_name":43,"last_name":44,"description":45,"event_image":46,"profile_image":56},"86be41f8-8767-4212-bf6c-cbe43aef7ddf","christian-liebel","IT-Berater bei Thinktecture","Christian","Liebel","\u003Cp>Christian Liebel ist IT-Berater bei der Thinktecture AG in Karlsruhe. Er ist Microsoft Most Valuable Professional (MVP) und Google Developer Expert (GDE). Im Jahr 2018 erschien sein Buch „\u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.rheinwerk-verlag.de\u002Fprogressive-web-apps-das-praxisbuch\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Progressive Web Apps – Das Praxisbuch\u003C\u002Fa>“ im Rheinwerk Verlag, in dem er auf über 500 Seiten anhand vieler Praxisbeispiele beschreibt, wie Progressive Web Apps entwickelt werden können.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Seit Februar 2026 ist Christian gewähltes Mitglied der \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.w3.org\u002F2001\u002Ftag\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Technical Architecture Group (TAG) des W3C\u003C\u002Fa> – zwölf Personen weltweit, denen die Verwaltung und Weiterentwicklung der Architektur des World Wide Web anvertraut ist.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Wenn ihr Christian nicht persönlich trefft, seinen Vorträgen zuhört oder ihn aus unserem Podcast kennt, könnt ihr über seine rege Aktivität auf Social Media mit ihm in Kontakt treten.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":47,"title":48,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":49,"filename_download":50,"metadata":12,"type":51,"filesize":52,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":53,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":54,"folder":12,"width":55,"height":36,"charset":12,"duration":12},"f4c9123b-4cd3-41e8-bb8e-e57b4526371a","Christian Liebel","f4c9123b-4cd3-41e8-bb8e-e57b4526371a.jpg","christian_liebel_event_c1a5066da2.jpg","image\u002Fjpeg","103809","2022-01-16T14:27:44.319Z","2021-12-30T14:17:31.221Z",1536,{"id":57,"title":48,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":58,"filename_download":59,"metadata":60,"type":21,"filesize":61,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":62,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":24,"uploaded_on":63,"folder":12,"width":36,"height":36,"charset":12,"duration":12},"505163b7-4d34-492e-ac90-d40ae952d608","505163b7-4d34-492e-ac90-d40ae952d608.png","Christian_Liebel.png",{},"1586791","2026-06-12T09:31:22.629Z","2026-06-12T09:31:22.625Z",[65,82],{"member":66},{"id":67,"first_name":68,"last_name":69,"occupation":70,"description":71,"normal_image":72},"47099351-508c-44d9-a2a2-855181c72ee8","Jan Gregor","Emge-Triebel","\u002F\u002F programmier.bar Tech Community Lead \u002F\u002F Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Jan ist ein echter Technik-Fan mit einer facettenreichen Karriere, die sich über Web-, Mobile-App-Entwicklung und DevOps erstreckt. Dank seiner vielfältigen Rollen – vom Entwickler über den Teamleiter bis hin zum Vice President Development – verfügt Jan über einen großen Erfahrungsschatz in der Softwareentwicklung und Developer Advocacy.\u003Cbr>Seine Leidenschaften jenseits der Technik reichen von Tauchgängen an exotischen Orten über das Eintauchen in digitale wie analoge Spiele bis hin zum Abtauchen in gelungene Plot-Twists in Büchern und Filmen.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":73,"title":74,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":75,"filename_download":76,"metadata":77,"type":51,"filesize":78,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":79,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":80,"uploaded_on":81,"folder":12,"width":36,"height":36,"charset":12,"duration":12},"ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b","Jan CD","ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b.jpg","Jan_CD.jpg",{},"649400","2024-07-26T09:26:17.846Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2024-07-26T09:26:17.710Z",{"member":83},{"id":84,"first_name":85,"last_name":86,"occupation":87,"description":88,"normal_image":89},"958f6624-c721-4ff9-8a97-69148f540945","Dennis","Becker","\u002F\u002F Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Dennis ist Head of Development bei Lotum und kümmert sich liebevoll um die Entwickler:innen und deren Weiterentwicklung. \u003Cbr>In den Podcastfolgen übernimmt Dennis gerne die Moderation. Beim täglichen Tischtennis ist er immer am Start und seit wenigen Jahren passionierter Kitesurfer. Mittlerweile ist er auch Vibe Coder mit Leidenschaft und überzeugt, dass seine Kolleg:innen AI unterschätzen. \u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":90,"title":91,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":92,"filename_download":93,"metadata":12,"type":51,"filesize":94,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":95,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":96,"folder":12,"width":36,"height":36,"charset":12,"duration":12},"7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9","Dennis Becker","7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9.jpg","dennis_becker_normal_01e352e682.jpg","45729","2022-01-16T14:26:35.196Z","2021-12-30T14:16:28.647Z",[98,114,130],{"id":99,"name":100,"website_url":101,"description":102,"image":103},"e9e9567e-54af-4ff2-8eef-8c3461c114a6","Silicon Valley","https:\u002F\u002Fthetvdb.com\u002Fseries\u002Fsilicon-valley","\u003Cp>Wer verstehen möchte, wie absurd, chaotisch und gleichzeitig faszinierend die Tech-Welt im Silicon Valley sein kann, sollte einen Blick auf die HBO-Serie „Silicon Valley“ werfen.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Die Comedy-Serie begleitet ein Startup auf seinem Weg durch Investor:innen-Pitches, Produktentscheidungen, Firmenpolitik und den ganz normalen Wahnsinn der Tech-Branche. Trotz aller Überzeichnung gilt die Serie bis heute als eine der treffendsten Darstellungen des Startup-Ökosystems im Valley.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Besonders empfehlenswert: das spätere \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002Fwatch?v=ab1H602yc_Y\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">„10 Years Later“-Special\u003C\u002Fa>, das die Geschichte noch einmal aufgreift und abrundet.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":104,"title":105,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":106,"filename_download":107,"metadata":108,"type":21,"filesize":109,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":110,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":24,"uploaded_on":111,"folder":12,"width":112,"height":113,"charset":12,"duration":12},"67cfec6f-f7ab-46dd-8c23-86124691937c","Bildschirmfoto 2026 06 11 Um 17.48.46","67cfec6f-f7ab-46dd-8c23-86124691937c.png","Bildschirmfoto 2026-06-11 um 17.48.46.png",{},"1408247","2026-06-11T15:51:15.960Z","2026-06-11T15:51:15.956Z",1946,1098,{"id":115,"name":116,"website_url":117,"description":118,"image":119},"d5e8d70e-546a-47b2-b6f2-0086214f8467","Tesla Full Self-Driving (FSD) in Deutschland","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.auto-motor-und-sport.de\u002Fverkehr\u002Ftesla-self-service-selbstbedienung-probefahrten\u002F","\u003Cp>Tesla bietet aktuell Probefahrten seines Full Self-Driving (FSD) Features in Deutschland an. Das Kontingent ist zwar äußerst begrenzt (also sichert euch schnell eure Plätze), aber das Programm bietet einen guten Einblick auf das, was schon gut funktioniert und zeigt auf wohin die Reise geht – im wahrsten Sinne des Wortes.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Dennis hat an einer der Probefahrten in Deutschland teilgenommen und war begeistert.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":120,"title":121,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":122,"filename_download":123,"metadata":124,"type":51,"filesize":125,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":126,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":24,"uploaded_on":127,"folder":12,"width":128,"height":129,"charset":12,"duration":12},"5449ff09-592a-406a-9e8d-793a6ceece75","2153845","5449ff09-592a-406a-9e8d-793a6ceece75.jpeg","2153845.jpeg",{},"292191","2026-06-11T15:47:11.715Z","2026-06-11T15:47:11.713Z",2000,1125,{"id":131,"name":132,"website_url":133,"description":134,"image":135},"cd7bbfe1-e7f4-4e11-b7b4-d02c48d39681","„Could, Should, Might, Don’t“ von Nick Foster","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.couldshouldmightdont.com\u002Forder","\u003Cp>Wie denken Unternehmen eigentlich über die Zukunft nach? Christian empfiehlt das Buch „Could, Should, Might, Don’t“ von Nick Foster, das verschiedene Arten des Zukunftsdenkens beleuchtet.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Statt sich ausschließlich in spektakulären Visionen von Robotern, autonomen Fahrzeugen oder Smart Cities zu verlieren, zeigt Foster, welche unterschiedlichen Perspektiven auf mögliche Zukünfte existieren – und warum es oft die Mischung aus Vision, Pragmatismus und Skepsis ist, die zu guten Entscheidungen führt. Eine spannende Lektüre für alle, die sich mit Technologie, Innovation und den großen Fragen von morgen beschäftigen.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":136,"title":137,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":138,"filename_download":139,"metadata":140,"type":21,"filesize":141,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":142,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":24,"uploaded_on":143,"folder":12,"width":144,"height":145,"charset":12,"duration":12},"b9a238c0-e94d-4c81-aaa7-4c13329b6d6f","Bildschirmfoto 2026 06 11 Um 17.45.55","b9a238c0-e94d-4c81-aaa7-4c13329b6d6f.png","Bildschirmfoto 2026-06-11 um 17.45.55.png",{},"826859","2026-06-11T15:47:31.556Z","2026-06-11T15:47:31.553Z",1556,1094,[],[],[149],{"first_name":43,"last_name":44,"profile_image":56,"slug":41,"description":45,"event_image":46,"academic_title":12},479,203,[],{"id":154,"service":155,"supported_features":156,"speakers":159,"raw_response":167},"7307f9c0-03d4-4d52-9437-2c1b8760c1b4","deepgram",[157,158],"timestamps","diarization",[160,163,165],{"identifier":161,"name":162},"0","Jan",{"identifier":164,"name":85},"1",{"identifier":166,"name":43},"2",{"metadata":168,"results":182},{"transaction_key":169,"request_id":170,"sha256":171,"created":172,"duration":173,"channels":174,"models":175,"model_info":177},"deprecated","019f7fcf-013e-7051-9f9d-39ed2828bb87","f45de2e7dbc0e8939c0f629d82af83817aca43e454eced962be4027ad99726fc","2026-07-20T13:55:08.709Z",4731.4263,1,[176],"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3",{"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3":178},{"name":179,"version":180,"arch":181},"2-general-nova","2024-05-09.3071","nova-2",{"channels":183,"utterances":38081},[184],{"alternatives":185},[186],{"transcript":187,"confidence":188,"words":189,"paragraphs":35620},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen Deep Dive hier in der Programmierbar. Heute für euch vor der Kamera, Kamera, vor dem Mikrofon. Ich weiß gar nicht, was mir ihr als Erstes sagt. Ich bin Oh, natürlich. Vor dem Mikrofon. Ich bin der Jan Gregor im Getriebe und zu meiner linken Ecke sitzt Dennis Becker, hallo. Wir wollen heute mit einem Gast sprechen, der uns mit sehr viel Elan gepitcht worden ist. Gepitcht worden von Christian Weiher, der ja, glaub ich, schon mehrfach bei uns im Podcast war und auch schon mehrfach bei uns auf der programmierbar Bühne gestanden hat, auf dem Meet-up, auf der Konferenz, auf, Christian sei eigentlich immer am Start, so. Und der Christian hat uns 'n anderen Christian gepitcht und meinte, mit dem müsst ihr unbedingt mal reden. Und ich glaube, was der Christian, also der 1. Christian, nicht auf dem Schirm hatte, ist, dass der andere Christian auch schon mal bei uns im Podcast war. Hab ich auch schon zweimal Weißt Du noch, wann das war? Ist lange her, würde ich sagen, zumindest 1 von den beiden Malen. Waren beide Male im selben Jahr. Wir waren relativ kurz hintereinander tatsächlich sogar. Ich dachte Mal 2022 oder 23. Siehst Du mal, wie man sich irren kann? Oder seit 20 20 war das. So, ganz frühe Programmierbeizeiten Folge 70 und 72 über Web Components und Project Fugu. Weißt Du noch, was das war? Ist gibt's, glaube ich, immer noch, gell? Ich guck mal ich guck mal ganz kurz. Gibt's, glaube ich, noch. Weiß jetzt Nein. Web Browser Kafabilities und so was. Und ähnlich dem Thema wollen wir heute auch widersprechen über Kafabilities und Web und Technik und Infrastruktur und Architektur und was da so alles hintendran Wir wollen heute sprechen mit Christian Diebel und zwar über die w 3 CTAG und was das ist, verrät er uns bestimmt gleich, aber Christian, wenn man bei dir auf dein LinkedIn Profil schaut, da weiß also da weiß man gar nicht, wo man anfangen soll, ja? Irgendwie GDI, Microsoft, MVP, dann findet man in deinem Feed unendlich viele Konferenzen. Also Du scheinst überall unterwegs zu sein, wo es technisch auch nur ansatzweise spannend wird, so, ja? Und daher freuen wir uns natürlich ganz besonders, dass Du zwischen all dem heute Zeit gefunden hast, mal sone gute Stunde mit uns darüber zu sprechen. Hallo und herzlich willkommen, Christian Liebe. Ja, hallo. Dann danke für die Einladung. Schön, dass ich wieder hier sein darf. Genau Webcompons et cetera, Project Fu gibt es alles alles noch und ja, über das W3C, über das Web wollen wir heute reden und das ist spannend, definitiv. Vielleicht, bevor wir anfangen, da ins Detail zu gehen, erzähl uns doch mal, warum interessierst Du dich überhaupt so sehr für das Web und warum sollte man sich generell dafür interessieren? Das machen doch schon irgendwelche Leute, die dafür sorgen, dass das alles passt. Gut, das ist eine gute Frage. Meine, ja, Liebe zum Web, die liegt also die fangen schon sehr früh an tatsächlich. Ich glaube, ich bin online, seit ich 4 bin und ich kann mich noch dran erinnern, dass ich Jetzt ist es auch. Ohne ohne dir zu nahe treten, das Wort, aber man muss sich, glaube ich, relativieren, wie alt bist Du denn? So, ja, das son bisschen einordnen zu können. 33. Also ich bin seit knapp 30 Jahren online und ich erinnere mich noch an die an die Zeit, an an die an die Anfangszeit. Netzgate, Navigator oder Communicator hatten wir auch mit dem E-Mail-Programm integriert, Version 4 oder was es damals war. Insofern ja, das Web bekleidet mich schon sehr, sehr lange. Damals halt als Nutzer, ich glaube so im Alter von 10, habe ich immer Frontpage installiert und dann ja wollte ich halt auch mal selber sone Webseite bauen. Da hab ich dann das selber irgendwie durchgesucht, wie man das alles online kriegen kann. Da gab's damals Lykos oder so was, so eine Webseite mit sonem mit sonem schwarzen Hund. Falls euch an das erinnern könnt, da kommt man auch so 'n Free Subhoster war das, ne? Richtig, nur mal einfach kostenlos Sachen hosten konnte und wie gesagt als Zehnjähriger hast Du bissel Taschengeld für Eis, aber halt jetzt nicht direkt für, was weiß ich, 'n Root Server oder so was. Insofern waren das so die Anfänge. Hatte dann im Studium Webengineering belegt, gut, war am Pflichtfach, aber das war auch die Vorlesung, die mir am meisten Spaß gemacht hat. Und dann, als ich in Beruf eingestiegen bin, war halt eben grad der große Switchback von den klassischen Desktop Anwendungen, was ich, WPF Windows Forms hin zum Web. Angularja S war damals und gerade in Phone Gap war groß diskutiert. Also die Cross Plattform Geschichte. Und ja, während Studium habe ich mal im Studium mit einem Studienkollegen eine App gebaut, die oder was heißt eine App gebaut? Wir haben eine Website gebaut. Das war ein Spiel, haben wir im Rahmen dieser Web Engineering Vorlesungen entwickelt, war SVG basiert und dann kam damals Microsoft mit Windows 8 die Ecke. Falls ihr euch erinnert, ne, Tablets und Touch und Apps und und alles. Und dann haben wir unsere Web App genommen und weil das damals mit Windows 8 ging, die haben HTML 5 Apps so nativ unterstützt, haben einfach diese Anwendung genommen, so wie sie war, in den Windows 8 Rahmen quasi reingeworfen und dann in den Store gestellt und haben dann dort etliche 1000 Downloads bekommen. Ich weiß gar nicht mehr, wie viele das waren. Aber das war so für mich der ja, so die Initialzündung, wo ich gedacht habe, krass, das kann man mit der Technologie machen und wie schnell hast Du eben auch aus soner normalen Webseite eben eine App gebastelt, die dann auch noch gut im Store performt. Vergessen auch immer viele, ne, dass das so auch der Einstieg bei Apple war, so das Allererste. Stimmt. Vor dem SDB, es waren ja auch erst mal nur Web Apps, die Ganz genau. Was immer, US 2 oder wie auch Ich weiß nicht mehr ganz genau, wie das nehmen wir Apple US 1. OS 1 hieß es. IPhone. IPhone. Also sie das noch das Chat hatten zwischen iPhone OS und iPod Touch OS. Okay, ja. Und da gab es tatsächlich ja noch keinen Store und das wollten sie auch gar nicht haben, weil das ist ja böse und und gefährlich, wenn da quasi beliebige Software auf dem eigenen Gerät läuft. Und da war in der Tat die Idee, ihr schreibt einfach nur Webseiten und könnt sie dann zum Home Bildschirm hinzufügen. Ja, Suite Solution, wie Steve Jobs damals auf der Bühne verkündet hat. Ja. So und der Weg vom Microsoft App Store hin zur W3 CTHG, den stelle ich mir nicht gerade linear vor oder ist das so einfach? Wie wie kommt man dann am Ende denn dahin? Ui, ja, nee, der war nicht so linear, der war auch überhaupt nicht vorausgezeichnet. Vielleicht sage ich kurz was zu dem Gremium, was es überhaupt ist. Also dieses ist eine Abkürzung, steht für Technical Architecture Group, also für die Technische Architekturgruppe. Und das ist innerhalb des W3C des Standardisierungs Gremiums für das World Wide Web eine spezielle Arbeitsgruppe, die mit der Sicherstellung, Stewartship heißt es im Englischen, finde ich immer schwer zu übersetzen, die damit beauftragt ist, sagen wir's so, dass das Web quasi auch in Zukunft bestehen bleibt und nicht auseinanderfällt. Also wir sollten gucken, dass der Architektur, das Web zusammengehalten wird, konsistent bleibt, so wie man's halt eben von Architekturboards kennt. Sind 12 Leute nur weltweit, ist gewählt, ein gewähltes Gremium innerhalb des B3C, also ein Teil des gewählten Teil wird besetzt vom B3C Team. Der Erfinder des World Wide Web hat noch so einen Ehrensitz in der Gruppe Sir Tim Berners Lee. Und genau, ich kannte dieses Gremium. Ich wusste, dass es das gibt. Und wie war der Weg dorthin? Ich habe im Kontext von Progressive Webwebs, das hat das auch mit Project Foogel zu tun und ist im Prinzip eine Fortsetzung von iPhone OS, über was wir grad eben geredet haben. Diese Idee quasi, dass wir eine Webseite nehmen und die auf dem Gerät installierbar machen. Also es quasi auch im Browser saß, ich möchte diese App installieren und dann wird die so dargestellt, als sei es eine native Anwendung. Diese Grundidee haben wir tatsächlich damals beim iPhone gesehen und die kam dann so ab, ich sag jetzt mal grob 20 14 15 wieder auf und da wollte man das quasi auch in die übrigen Browser bringen. Und da wurd damals viel implementiert. Serviceworker ist ein Beispiel davon, die Offline Fähigkeit, dass man Webseiten auch komplett offline halten kann auf dem Gerät, dass man nicht mal mehr eine Internetverbindung braucht. Der Serviceworker kann auch Push Benachrichtigungen zum Beispiel entgegennehmen. Da haben Websites zum ersten Mal Push Capabilities bekommen und dann eben auch die Möglichkeit zur Installation, sodass wenn ich dann auf den Button klicke und das Ding, also dann bekommt die Web App quasi einen Eintrag in der Programmliste, in der Task Bar, im Dock auf dem auf dem Startbildschirm des Geräts. Und wenn ich's von da öffne, dann sieht diese App so aus, als sei sie eine aktive Anwendung. Und ich hab im Jahr 20 18 da 'n Buch dazu geschrieben und hab in dem Kontext halt einfach Spezifikationen recherchiert. Und zwar insbesondere die Spezifikation des Web Application Manifest. Das ist die SPAC, die sich darum kümmert, die Darstellung der auf dem Gerät installierten App. Also wenn ich sage, ich möchte diese App gerne installieren, dann definiert dieses Manifest das Icon, den Namen der der Anwendung, mögliche Shortcuts, die Hintergrundfarbe, die angezeigt werden soll und so weiter und noch auch vieles weitere mehr. Und in dem Kontext hab ich mir einfach Desback durchgelesen, weil ich das ja im Buch auch quasi dann beschreiben wollte, was man da alles einstellen kann, was Möglichkeiten es gibt und hab mir da Respekt hergenommen und hab dann ganz ja Low key angefangen und hab am Anfang einfach mal ja, typos korrigiert, denen der Spezifikationen waren, so 1. Gestellt. Und aus den Hypos wurden dann irgendwann also schon kleinere Features. Und das ist dann bei B3C son Überschreiten von 'ner Schwelle. Denn sobald man substanziell an Spezifikationen arbeitet, muss man W3C Mitglied werden und oder eingeladener Experte sein, ein erweiterter Experte. Das geht auch. Und dann kam damals Leute auf mich zu. Es waren konkret Leute von Intel gewesen und haben gesagt, hey, das ist doch ziemlich cool, was ihr da macht. Wollt ihr nicht W3C Mitglied werden? Dann haben wir das intern besprochen bei uns bei Thinktacture und haben uns entschieden, das zu machen und sind W3C Mitglied geworden. Das ist jetzt der Start in der Standardisierungswelt gewesen. 20 18 Uhr 19 sind wir Mitglied geworden. Ich war 20 19 und zum ersten Mal bei soner beim Jahrestreffen des w3 c dabei, bei der sogenannten TIPEC. Das ist die Technical Plannery and Advisory Committee Meetingwoche des w3 c, die tatsächlich auch über dem kompletten Planeten verteilt dann immer stattfindet, also jedes Jahr in 'ner anderen Region. Und 20 19 war das in Fukuka gewesen in Südjapan und hab dort zum ersten Mal die Leute kennengelernt. Ja, und gelernt, wie Standardisierungsarbeit funktioniert. Wie wie trocken muss ich mir das vorstellen? Also es klingt erst mal sehr trocken, wenn Du so von Standardisierungsarbeit sprichst. Ich würd sie nicht als trocken bezeichnen, sie ist extrem langsam. Das muss man wissen. Also selbst einfachste Features brauchen Jahre. Das ist quasi die das ist eher die Eigenschaft, die ich der SPAC Arbeit zuschreiben würde. Trocken ist, finde ich es nicht, weil man das ja immer mit ganz, ganz, ganz vielen Stakeholdern besprechen muss. Es gibt zum einen ja erst mal 3 unabhängig Browser Engines. Das heißt, mit denen muss man reden und mit den Leuten, die da hinten dran stehen. Man muss mit den Softwareentwicklern reden, was brauchen die überhaupt? Was wünschen die sich? Was erwarten die sich von soner API? Kann man die dann so bauen, dass da auch in das in die Architektur, ja, das Web passt, dass sich quasi Sicherheit und Privatsphäre der Anwender auch bewahrt. Dann natürlich auch gucken, ist es was, was zu den Nutzern wiederum passt? Also es ist extrem abwechslungsreich. Es ist manchmal auch durchaus anstrengend, wie gesagt, weil es sich so lange halt auch zieht und sehr viel reviewed wird. Das Web funktioniert beispielsweise auch so, zumindest auf der w 3 c Seite, dass alle Entscheidungen immer Konsensentscheidungen sein müssen. Das heißt, anders wie bei uns in der Demokratie, ja, wo irgendwie 50 Prozent plus eine Stimme genügt. Konsens heißt, wir arbeiten so lange, bis keiner mehr schreit. Und das kann ebenfalls wieder lange dauern und dann werden ganz lange Argumente ausgetauscht. Es dreht sich auch oftmals im Kreis, aber am Ende hast Du dafür immer eine 1 Lösung, die, wie ich finde, gut ist. Und Du hast eine Lösung, die aus so vielen Blickwinkeln betrachtet wurde und reviewed wurde, dass es sehr unwahrscheinlich ist, dass da noch irgend 'n Grundproblem besteht. Aber in was für 'nem Spannungsverhältnis arbeitet man denn da? Weil, also ich seh da schon sehr unterschiedliche Gruppen aufeinandertreffen, ja, und die haben ja auch alle im Prinzip die Möglichkeit, ihre Lösung außerhalb der TAG oder des b3s insgesamt irgendwie zu forcieren, ja. Also wenn ich jetzt an Browserhersteller denk, die können ja per se auch erst mal schippen, was sie wollen, ne. Ja, dann ist es vielleicht jetzt nicht so universal supportet oder so, aber Chrome Firefox, die können morgen eine API releasen, ohne ja aufrecht angewiesen zu sein, ja? Und andererseits auf Developer Seite kann man auch, wenn man mal son paar Jahre Jahrzehnte zurückdenkt und sich anschaut, was für eine Vormachtstellung so und wie irgendwie JQURE oder so was hatten, ja, wo Du im Prinzip alles, was heute so diese document Accesser Funktionen sind, ja, die da im Prinzip voran gedacht worden sind, das geht ja auch ohne Browsersupport, ja? Also wenn Developer das wollen, dann kriegen sie's auch irgendwie hin. Wenn Browserhersteller das wollen, kriegen sie's auch irgendwie hin. Wie kriegt man die denn dann am Ende irgendwie doch alle an einen Tisch und sagt so, hey, vielleicht ist ja doch irgendwie ganz gut, wenn wir das gemeinsam machen und nicht 1 da jetzt irgendwie ausbricht, weil ihm das zu lange dauert oder zu weit weg von seinen Idealvorstellungen kommt? Ja, zunächst mal so der Befund, der ist absolut richtig und das gilt auch nach wie vor so. Browserhersteller können zunächst mal tun und lassen, was sie wollen und das passiert auch. Wer zum Beispiel die Google I0I0I0 verfolgt hat, hat da zum Beispiel HTML in Canvas gesehen. Das ist eine coole Sache. Du kannst es quasi einfach normale Elemente kannst Du nehmen und in dein Canvas reinpacken und so die normalen Short Cards und quasi Maus Klick Boundaries und so was die die Hitboxen, die funktionieren einfach weiter. Das ist eine sehr, sehr coole Sache. Also ich persönlich als Entwickler freue mich da drüber. Hat's mir hier auch in den News? Hat sich auch alle gefreut. Top. Hervorragend. Allerdings und jetzt kommt so ein bisschen die Einschränkung, ist das, soweit ich weiß, also es ist definitiv mal eine Sache, die sehr stark von Chromium getrieben wird. Aber es würde mich auch nicht allzu weit ausm Fenster lehnen. Ich glaube, Apple ist da noch nicht so an Bord und bei Mozilla kenne ich grad nicht die, Also am besten researcht man das mal, aber hier ist Google quasi vorgeprescht und sagt, das ist eine gute Sache, wir sollten das haben. Und dann wird es in der Tat diskutiert. Accessability Leute beispielsweise finden das gut, weil wir sonst keine Möglichkeit haben im in 'nem Canvas, ne, was halt aus Pixeldaten besteht, Beschreibungen zu haben, was da grade so dargestellt wird, sodass Leute hergehen und unsichtbare Buttons quasi über den Canvas zeichnen. Und da sind wir im Prinzip genau bei HTML in Canvas, ja? Und das würde quasi dann das das Problem adressieren und lösen. Aber es funktioniert ganz, ganz oft so, dass halt Anwender halt vorbrischt und Dinge implementiert. Und es gibt in der Tat keine Garantie, dass das dann später auch in allen Browsern landet. Manchmal ist es der Druck von Entwicklern selber, kann aber zum Beispiel auch von Regulatorenseite kommen, dass dann sone Schnittstelle später implementiert werden muss oder werden sollte. Aber zunächst einmal ist es ja auch das das Schöne am World Wide Web, dass jeder sehr frei ist. Also ist halt eine Community, wo sehr viele Leute zusammenkommen. Es kann jeder jede Webseite betreiben, die er mag. Jeder kann Server zur Verfügung stellen. Es gibt keine Zensur. Es gibt also quasi jeder kann zunächst mal im Web tun und lassen, was er will. Wo da jetzt diese diese Gruppe, die w 13 Tag quasi dann reinkommt, ist, hier dieser Community aber 'n bisschen das den Weg zu zeigen. Ja, das ist die Idee. Die Tag hat tatsächlich auch keine formale Macht. Sie kann keine API blockieren. Sie kann keine API abschalten lassen oder so. Konkretes Beispiel, hier sind zum Beispiel Third Party Cookies. Ist zum Beispiel etwas, wo die Tag der Auffassung ist, dass es sie, dass sie abgeschaltet werden sollten, dass es sie nicht geben sollte. So, jetzt ist die Landschaft so, dass das in Firefox und in Safari auch gemacht wurde. Aber in Chrome ist es noch immer so. Da sind die per Standard quasi immer noch aktiv. Du kannst sie ausschalten. Aber hier hat sich dann zum Beispiel dazu entschieden, diesem Rat nicht zu folgen. Und das ist zunächst mal dann auch erlaubt. Aber es wird schon auf die Empfehlungen und die, ich nenn sie mal Beschlüsse der Tag auch schon geachtet. Ja, das kann zum Beispiel für Regulator und Grundlage für eine Entscheidung sein, wenn dieses gewichtige Gremium sagt, das ist eine gute Sache oder das ist eine schlechte Sache. Bitte nicht machen. Ja, und damit dann solche Entscheidungen durchaus beeinflussen kann. Weiteres Beispiel, der Chrom Chromium. Sieht auch vor, dass ein Feature, ein positives Tag Review haben muss und wenn es das nicht hat, dann können sie immer noch schippen, aber quasi dann muss man erst mal rechtfertigen, warum. Ne, also insofern hat das Gremium da schon etwas zu sagen, aber hat formal, wie gesagt, keine Macht. Wie ist denn der restliche W3 c irgendwie organisiert? Also wie viele dieser Gruppen gibt es für unterschiedliche Bereiche? Wie viele arbeiten da so aktiv insgesamt mit? Es gibt, ich bin mir über die genaue Zahl nicht sicher. Ich glaube, dass es 43 Arbeitsgruppen sind, die an unterschiedlichsten Themen arbeiten. Es gibt beispielsweise, es gibt CSS, es gibt Web Apps, Web Security, es gibt Devices and sensus, es gibt, also wirklich alles Mögliche, was halt irgendwie so lose auch mit dem World Wide Web zusammenhängt. Insofern, in diesen unterschiedlichen Workstreams wird daran gearbeitet. Dazu kommt noch eine Anzahl von sogenannten Community groups. Der Unterschied hier ist, dass Working groups die sind, die die Dokumente verabschieden können, die auf dem Track landen. Das heißt, der W3C ist ein Webstandard und nur diese, sagen wir mal, 43 Arbeitsgruppen können quasi solche Webstandards dann schlussendlich auch publizieren. Die Community groups sind dafür gedacht, dass man son bissel machen kann. Es gibt auch Hürden für Arbeitsgruppen, zum Beispiel, damit irgendwas werden kann, braucht es Unterstützung durch 2 unterschiedliche Browserengines. Und es gibt ja nur noch 3 unabhängige. Das ist einmal Chromium, dann Gecko, also Firefox und einmal Webkit, also Safari. Und hier müssen sich immer 2 zusammenfinden, damit etwas werden kann. Ist zum Beispiel schon mal eine Barriere. Und da gibt's Community Gruppen. Ich vermute mal, dass es mehr gibt als als Arbeitsgruppen. Und die können halt diese Dokumente nicht erstellen. Aber es ist ein Ort, mit dem man, wenn sie zum Beispiel eine Chromium only API ist, trotzdem schon mal mit der Community diskutieren kann und ein Spezifikation Dokument erstellen kann, das dann später Grundlage sein kann für eine solche. Dann ist es natürlich möglich, dass man später eine Spezifikation aus der Community Group nimmt und die einfach in die passende Working Group dann überträgt. Das sind ja bei jetzt über 40 Gruppen einiges an an Menschen und da hintendran wahrscheinlich auch noch 'n bisschen so Metaorganisation, das alles, ne, zu organisieren, zusammenzuhalten, zu strukturieren. Wer bezahlt das denn? Guter Punkt. SWR3 c ist eine Mitgliederorganisation. Das heißt, das wird getragen durch wieder eine gewisse Anzahl Mitgliedern. Vielleicht sollt ich einfach mal kurz die die Webseite hier nebenbei auch machen, dann können wir die Zahlen ganz genau mal raussuchen. Und die Mitglieder zahlen dann Mitgliedsgebühren entsprechend ihres Jahresumsatzes. Also jetzt fängt Thaxon beispielsweise 'n relativ kleines Unternehmen und das hat dann das Glück, dass es eben 'n Start-up Preis gibt. Also die verstaffelte Beiträge dann quasi jetzt nicht so 5 Prozent des Jahresumsatzes oder so was Pauschales. Das ist laut der Analok von Kirchenzehnt. Es gibt konkrete Stufen im Prinzip. Und da kann aber jeder Mitglied werden? Das heißt, wenn ich jetzt hier mit meiner Mittel kleinen Bude aus Bad Nauheim irgendwie Interesse hab, dem B3 c beizutreten, kann ich da morgen meine Anmeldung hinschicken und dann bin ich da auch dabei. So sieht's aus. Vielleicht sollten wir uns das mal überlegen. Die Programmierer wird Mitglied beim B3 c. Wir freuen uns immer über Zahlen. Nee, aber Und ist das nicht das? In der in der Organisation. Es ist eine wichtige wichtige Sache. Ja, und die Arbeit, die Du machst, ist dann ehrenamtlich oder gibt's dafür irgend eine Vergütung dann? Nee, diese Arbeit ist tatsächlich ehrenamtlich und also in in jeder Hinsicht. Ich bin jetzt in 2 Arbeitsgruppen. Ich bin in der Web Apps Arbeitsgruppe und in der Web Machine Learning Arbeitsgruppe und der Community Group, die zugehört, bin SPAC Autor beim Manifest beispielsweise, dann spielt er auch geworden. Das ist alles ehrenamtliche Arbeiten. Genauso ist es auch die in der Tag. Es gibt wirklich gar keinen gar keine finanzielle Unterstützung von der b3 c Seite. Das bezahlt dankenswerterweise auch alles. Mein Arbeitgeber ThinkTry, ne, hier quasi sagen, das ist eine gute Sache, Standardisierungsarbeit im Web. Das möchten wir gerne unterstützen und insofern bin ich sehr dankbar, dass mein Arbeitgeber mich für die Zeit auch freistellt, die das Ganze benötigt. Wir haben 3 Calls in der Woche aus der Tag quasi, wo wir dann über die verschiedenen Vorschläge drüber schauen. Und es gibt 2 vor Ort Treffen, die ebenfalls dann wieder über den Globus verteilt stattfinden. Und ja, dafür müssen natürlich auch Flug und Hotel gezahlt werden. Das heißt, das kommt Selbst das zahlt die Tech nicht mal aus aus quasi Mitgliedsbeiträgen. Das heißt, wenn Du ehrenamtlich mithelfen willst, ist es nicht mal nur mit deiner Zeit getan, sondern es kommen auch noch Kosten auf dich. Ich mein, in dem Fall trägt das jetzt dein Arbeitgeber, das ist cool, aber wenn ich jetzt selbst alleine Mitglied werden wollen würde und da kein Backing hab, dann kommen am Ende neben der im Aufwand auch noch Kosten auf mich zu. So sieht's aus. Es gibt da verschiedene Modelle, ja, wie wie Leute das fahren. Ich hab jetzt, wie gesagt, diese Lösung dankenswerterweise. Wir haben aber auch unabhängige Freelancer in der Tech drin beispielsweise und die lassen sich zum Beispiel sponsoren. Also wo's einfach 'n 'n Fonds gibt, wo dann wieder andere Firmen oder sogar Einzelpersonen einfach dann Geld einbezahlen, damit die Leute ihrer Arbeit nachkommen können. Weil das ist so, ne, ist ja schon 'n gewisser Teil Arbeitszeit. Und ein Flug über den Atlantik ist dann auch nicht das Günstigste, vor allem aktuell gerade nicht. Und ja, das muss man eben dann können. Und manche, die schalten sich dann eben auch digital zu, ne. Also nächstes Face to Face ist Vancouver und dann haben manche gesagt, das schaffe ich nicht und dann gibt's natürlich auch die Möglichkeit 1 Remote Teilnahme. Ja, ist halt son Teilhabeding auch, ne. Also es gibt ja dann vielleicht durchaus Stimmen, die qualifiziert werden oder 'n berechtigtes Interesse irgendwie hätten, da dabei zu sein, aber wenn man sich das halt nicht leisten kann im wahrsten Sinne des Wortes, ne, dann wird's wahrscheinlich auch schwierig für den ein oder anderen. Ja, dann ist man natürlich trotzdem nicht draußen, ja. Also auch das biete ich immer explizit und sehr gerne an. Weebentwickler jeder Art, ja, die Anfragen haben, die dürfen gerne an mich, gerne einfach eine E-Mail schreiben und ich nehme sie gerne mit oder bringen sie dann zur passenden Gruppe, wo es in deren Zuständigkeitsbereich es dann eben fällt. Genau, weil wir das wissen, dass es halt nicht einfach Ist, an diese an die richtigen Leute zu kommen. Als normaler Entwickler kannst Du halt eben nicht in der Regel beim, ich sag jetzt mal beim Edge Team anrufen. Aber wir stellen diese diese Kommunikationsinfrastruktur gern zur Verfügung. Die Brücke quasi schlagen wir gerne. Mhm. Genau. Jetzt sind wir schon direkt so in die Arbeit reingesprungen, als wir über deinen Weg dahin gesprochen haben. Ich weiß noch, Christian, als wir das 1. Mal über das Thema gesprochen haben, hab ich son bisschen im Scherz gesagt, wenn ich mir versuche vorzustellen, eine Gruppe von Menschen, die so über die Zukunft des Internets bestimmen, dann denke ich nicht in allererster Linie an den Christian aus Karlsruhe. So, sondern ich denk an irgendwie große Firmen wie, weiß ich nicht, ne, Google hat da irgendwie Interesse, vielleicht auch Cloudflare und Ackermai, die halt irgendwie viel Infrastruktur betreiben oder Leute, die halt irgendwie Security Stakes dadrin haben so. Und das das würde ich gerne mal noch beleuchten, ja. Du hast da so zwar nur gesagt, na ja, was dich da halt irgendwie so sehr interessiert und dann sind da so proaktiv auf die Leute zugekommen, aber ich find das 'n superinteressanten Aspekt davon, ja, dass dass es da eben offensichtlich nicht son hartes Gatekeeping gibt, sondern vielmehr es halt darum geht, okay, wenn da jemand wirklich Interesse dran hat, dann gibt es da ja offensichtlich einen Weg. So und die Hürde ist, ohne das kleinreden zu wollen, ja, aber offensichtlich nicht so astronomisch hoch, wie man sich das vorstellt, sondern eher geprägt durch ehrliche Partizipation und ehrliches Interesse daran. Ja, so würde ich das auch sagen. Für mich war das auch überraschend. Wie gesagt, ich kannte die die Gruppe vorher, ich wusste, was sie machen. Ich hab auch manchmal mitgefiebert auf manches Design Review, was die Tag dann bearbeitet hat. Und da haben wir uns das interessiert durchgelesen, ne. Gucken, was schreiben die denn so. Und ja, ich weiß auch genau, wie's war. Es war September 20 24, wir sind grad vom Einkaufen zurückgefahren. Ich war im im Auto, bin in Karlsruhe Südtangente gefahren, macht eine E-Mail-App auf und dann war da eine E-Mail gewesen von einem der Vorsitzenden der Tag damals. Hat gemeint, wir suchen grad Kandidaten. Und als wir rumgefragt haben, ist dein Name quasi auf die Liste gekommen. Wie sieht's aus? Hättest Du Interesse? Dann hab ich, ne, denkst Du so, wie kommen die bitte schön auf auf mich? Also, weil ich stimme zu. Dort sitzen Leute von Google und von von Apple und so weiter. Das passt jetzt hier Christian Liebe von Thinktcture aus Karlsruhe, nicht so direkt rein in die in die Reihe. Und dann war kurz darauf war wieder son Jahresmeeting vom B3C gewesen. Es war in LA dieses Mal. Und ja, dann bin ich da hingeflogen, hab mich mit den Vorsitzenden unterhalten und dann sind wir gemeinsam quasi zum Fluss gekommen, dass es tatsächlich passen könnte. Also ich wurd gefragt, was meine Vision für das Web ist, ja, was ich denn glaube, in welche Richtung es sich entwickeln sollte. Da meine Antwort drauf gegeben. Im Prinzip hatte das auch mit Project Fugu zu tun, über das wir ja bereits gesprochen haben. Also ich glaube halt, damit das Web Bestand hat, muss es mithalten mit der mit dem Feature Umfang von den sonstigen Plattformen, die es die es gibt. Wenn wir stehen bleiben und es quasi nichts mehr dazu bauen, kommt halt irgendeine andere Plattform, die macht's besser und dann ist das Web weg mit all seinen positiven Eigenschaften, die es hat. Und deswegen ist es wert, sich dafür einzusetzen, dass das halt eben geschieht. Und ja, man muss sich 1 Wahl stellen. Und dann habe ich das gemacht im Dezember 2024, wurde dann gewählt, hab da Unterlagen zusammengestellt. Ist im Prinzip wie in soner Art Wahlkampf. Man muss so einen Text zusammenschreiben. Es gibt verschiedene Fragen, die dann eingerichtet werden. Ich habe ein Video produziert und dann wurde gewählt. 4 Plätze waren, glaube ich, offen oder oder waren es 3? Ich weiß nicht mehr. Und dann hat es nicht funktioniert im ersten Durchlauf. Dann haben sie allerdings dankenswerterweise auch gerade in dem diesem Jahr ein Associate Programm eingeführt. Also wo man da schon mal son bisschen reinschnuppern kann und schon sogar bei den Design Reviews mitmachen darf, die sogar schon mitschreiben darf. Aber formal hat man kein Stimmrecht und man darf nicht zu den Face to Face Meetings kommen. Und dann habe ich das natürlich gemacht. Ich habe das das gerne angenommen. Ich war die 1. Tag Associate, den es gab, hab ein Jahr die ganz reguläre Arbeit schon gemacht. Das fand ich auch sehr cool. Die haben mich im Prinzip auch wirklich machen lassen. Ich habe viele Design Reviews durchgeführt, auch schon durchaus einige der kritischeren und die sind dann nicht unter meinem Namen erschienen quasi, aber wurden dann von den formalen Tech Mitgliedern veröffentlicht. Ja, und dann war das Jahr drauf wieder eine Wahl, hab ich wieder beworben und bis jeder. Diesmal hat's funktioniert. Und jetzt bin ich ganz ordentliches gewähltes, reguläres Mitglied der Tag. Was auch immer wieder zeigen soll, ist, wenn man es will und wenn man's natürlich auch ausfüllen kann, das gehört ja auch dazu, dann gibt's einen Weg, auch für den kleinen Softwareentwickler aus Karlsruhe. Und auch wenn der Softwareentwickler aus Karlsruhe vielleicht potenziell kleiner ist, es sind ja in der Tech erst mal alle Mitglieder gleichberechtigt. Ich war also jedes Mitglied 1 Stimme, egal wo Du irgendwie herkommst. Wird das auch so gelebt und wahrgenommen und ausgefüllt oder wie ist das, wenn dann, weiß ich nicht, ein 1 Chrome Mensch irgend Ich kenn die Leute nicht, ne, will da niemandem zu nahe treten. Aber wenn der jetzt ein Chrome Mensch steht und sagt so, hey, ich vertrete hier, ich weiß nicht, was Chrome fürn Share hat, mittlerweile bestimmt 80 Prozent plus irgendwie so, ne, das das Internets. Ich ich hab hier irgendwie ein Gewicht und dann kommt der Christian aus Karlsruhe und sagt so, ja, aber ich hab auch Ideen. So, ja, und dann sagt der Chrome, ja, ist mir doch egal. So, also Verstehst Du, was ich mein? Ich will da niemandem was Böses erstellen, aber ich kann mir schon vorstellen, dass allein, wo die Leute halt herkommen und mit was für 'nem Auftrag sie da quasi drin sind, das vielleicht schon einfach eine andere Wahrnehmung und Gewichtung irgendwie hat. Ja, ich verstehe, was Du meinst. Tatsächlich ist fast son bisschen wie in 'nem politischen Gremium, sage ich mal. Sobald Du gewählt bist, muss quasi deine Unternehmenszugehörigkeit in diesem Fall muss an der Tür liegen bleiben. Das heißt, wenn es wenn es ums Web geht, dann kommen die Leute immer noch aus 'nem gewissen Hintergrund. Das das ist und den streifst Du nicht ab. Aber Du sollst explizit nicht das als verlängerten Arm deines deines Unternehmens begreifen und soweit ich das einschätzen kann, passiert das. Auch Das heißt auch die Leute von ne, Google, Intel, Apple, keine Ahnung, die da drin sitzen, die sind auch genauso gewählt und haben nicht Also es hat nicht Google da drin einen Sitz und den besetzen sie einfach, wie sie wollen, sondern die sind halt auch in Anführungszeichen zufällig da drin, also die werden wahrscheinlich genug Ressourcen und Zeit da reinstecken, das sicherzustellen, dass sie da irgendwie immer mit drinsitzen. Aber am Ende sind sie genauso da reingekommen wie alle anderen auch und es könnte rein theoretisch passieren, dass in der nächsten Besetzung, Wahlperiode, wie auch immer, ja, Dennis, Du kannst auch mit dabei sein, aber ich wollte sagen, so jemand wie Apple oder Google halt nicht mehr mit am Tisch sitzt. Ja. Natürlich ist es so, ja, wenn gewählt werden muss und Du hast da einen Stimmzettel und da steht dann, sag ich mal, Google oder Apple hinten dran, dann Ja. Weißt Du, wen würdest Du angucken? Ja, so, weil auch hier wer kennt global gesehen quasi Think Tactre? Wir sind Größenordnung 20 Leute. Niemand. Insofern also global gesehen niemand, ja. Obwohl mir das fast 'n bisschen, ist mir fast 'n bisschen zu viel auf dieses, also vor allen Dingen auf diesem Skate. Ich verstehe so grundsätzlich, wie ich Herkommen. Und dann denk ich aber wiederum, es ist ja jetzt nicht so, dass sobald Du ein Google Mitarbeiter wirst, Du irgendwie sonen sone Spritze bekommst und irgendwie auf Drogen bist und auf einmal Also warst Du mal aufm Google Campus, die Leute das schon Nein, nein. Ne, irgendwie anders auf einmal anders denken können oder so was. Also ich, ne, ist jetzt überhaupt gar kein Problem. Also Nein, natürlich nicht. Es gilt von einem anderen, dass dass Christian da gleiche oder bessere Ideen. Ich weiß es gerade, aber die Leute haben ja 'n ganz anderen Interessenskonflikt auch. Weißt Du, ich mein, wenn Du einfach für Google arbeitest und die dein Lohn und Brot irgendwie bezahlen, dann ist ja vielleicht nicht von der Hand zu weisen, dass Du vielleicht 'n Interesse daran hast, dass das Web so weiter funktioniert, dass es für Google irgendwie funktioniert. Ja, weiß ich nicht. Oder einmal, Du findest das Web auch cool, aber das ist halt Google, hast dich da auskristallisiert als jemand, der intrinsisch motiviert ist und fertig. Ja, ich ich muss halt sagen, ne, wie gesagt, wenn man wählt und ich hab ja früher dann auch schon die Stimmen dafür abgegeben, ich bin quasi der Repräsentant von Thinktxure im B3C, nennt sich dann visualy Committee und die wiederum geben die Stimmen ab für diese Tagwahl beispielsweise und ich kenn das ja von mir selber. Wen würde man denn ankreuzen auf so einem Stimmzettel? Natürlich wählt man nach Bekanntheit, also vielleicht nicht mal die Person, weil die muss ja auch irgendwann mal kennengelernt haben und dann im Zweifel halt eher wirklich nach dem dem Firmennamen, der dann da hinten dran steht. Genau, aber ansonsten stimmt's. Auch die müssen quasi reingewählt werden. Aktuell haben wir beispielsweise keinen Microsoft Vertreter drin. Es ist auch kein Mozilla Vertreter drin beispielsweise. Also ist auch nicht so, dass das sein muss, dass da die großen Vendoren vertreten sind. Genau, Mozilla beispielsweise, die haben sich jetzt auch nicht beworben aktuell einen weiteren Sitz. Da ist grad der Vertreter jetzt im Februar dann quasi raus und ja, also auch auch das gibt's. Und ich will das gar nicht so negativ konnotiert sind, ne. Also ich finde das ja, kann man ja auch durchaus positiv sehen zu sagen, na ja, wenn da jemand von irgendwie Google auf der Liste steht, dann wähle ich den, weil wir haben ja alle irgendwie auch 'n Interesse, dass jemand von Google, jemand von Apple, jemand von Microsoft da mit am Tisch sitzt. Also, ne, geht ja gar nicht darum, dass die immer nur da irgendwie Schlechtes machen sollen oder so, sondern am Ende hängt ja einfach auch viel an deren Mitwirken so. Und von daher ist es ja gut, dass die mit dabei sind. Ich will das, ne, nicht, dass die alle nur mit ihrer Corporate Brille da kommen, sondern Du brauchst die Leute ja auch einfach. Deswegen, also ehrlicherweise, als Du das grade gesagt hast, meine 1. Reaktion war es ja voll schade, dass da niemand von Mozilla irgendwie grade dabei ist, so. Ja, aber da gab's tatsächlich keinen Kandidaten. Das ist dann vielleicht grad, also entweder haben sie dann grad niemanden oder es ist ihnen vielleicht grad nicht wichtig genug, ja auch die Ja, die haben auch grad son paar Funding Probleme, bei der Mozilla Foundation muss man Vielleicht spielt das dann auch mit rein. Insofern, es gibt ja auch andere Wege, wie Browserhersteller ihre Meinungen dann kundtun können. Gibt diese Standardpositions beispielsweise und das ist dann auch eine Möglichkeit, wie Mozilla sagen kann, das finden wir gut und das finden wir nicht gut. Und das ist dann vielleicht sogar die ehrlichere Art und Weise, weil das halt eben dann die Standardsposition des Browsers ist und die wiederum sogar explizit nicht in der in der Tag vertreten werden. Ich wollte noch etwas dazu sagen. Ach so, ja. Ansonsten habe ich intern keine Angst mit den Google oder mit den Apple Leuten oder mit wem auch immer denen zu widersprechen. Das tue ich durchaus und das ist in Ordnung und das ist sogar ein Asset. Tatsächlich bin ich jetzt bei größeren Design Reviews, die schon gab, bin ich tatsächlich auch einfach dazugekommen, wenn es so härtere Konfliktlinien gab. Und da hilft es, wenn man quasi nicht affiliate ist mit mit einem der großen Vendoren und son bisschen den Schiedsrichter spielen kann. Das hab ich im Prinzip auch schon gemacht. Insofern hilft mir das sogar eher. Du hast, Dennis Du auch weiter dazu? Ja, Du hast anfangs gesagt, eine Sache, dass es langsam ist. Jetzt denk ich so, okay, es sind eigentlich nur in Anführungsstrichen 12 Leute und ihr trefft euch, hast Du dreimal gesagt, die Woche irgendwie in Meetings. Es ist erstens nicht so wahnsinnig viele Leute und zweitens relativ häufig irgendwie, dass ihr euch trefft. Wieso ist dann trotzdem noch langsam? Ja, weil die Standardarbeit ja quasi nicht von uns gemacht wird. Also wir sind ein Reviewgremium, das heißt zu uns, also es gibt 2 Kernaufgaben von Attac. Das eine ist sämtliche neuen Web Schnittstellen, die kommen oder Web Features, neue CSS Eigenschaften beispielsweise zu reviewen. Und zum Zweiten gibt's son Dokument, son Architektur Dokument für das Web, wo das quasi dokumentiert ist, wie sollte man APIs aufbauen? Das sind so die 2 Hauptaufgaben. Und die kümmern wir uns. Das heißt, wir schauen uns APIs an, geben dann Feedback dazu. Aber die tatsächliche Standardisierungsarbeit, die geschieht in 1 der, ich hab's übrigens nachgeschaut, 47 Working groups innerhalb des W3C und machen wir die Schleife gerade noch fertig. Community Gruppen sind's einhundertfünfundsiebzig, also die, wo man's bisschen machen kann und Mitglieder sind aktuell 327. So, haben wir die Zahlen auch richtig stimmt. Es ist im Prinzip. Es sind wenige, die in der Standardisierung tätig sind und es ist eigentlich schade. Es gibt es muss noch einen kurzen Seitenpfad aufmachen. In unserem Architekturdokument, das ich gerade erwähnt habe, gibt's eine 1 klare Priorisierung Abfolge. Also wenn wir Standardisierungen machen, für wen machen wir es zuerst? Und die Reihenfolge ist zuerst für den Nutzer, dann für Webentwickler, dann für Browser Hersteller, dann für Spezifikationsautoren und dann für die akademische Schönheit quasi. Das ist die Priorisierung Abfolge und Nutzer und Webentwickler stehen ganz am Anfang, noch bevor dieventur ankommt, noch bevor das Backautor selber kommt. Und deswegen ist es wichtig und explizit gewünscht, dass Leute mit uns interagieren, dass wir ihre Stimme hören und das halt eben dann auch entsprechend einarbeiten können, ja, in die Standardisierungsarbeit. Und wenn Du sagst, lasst es halt 'n bisschen langsam und das dreht halt son paar Schleifen und dann kommt das vielleicht wieder zu euch an 'nem zweiten, dritten, vierten Beruf, über was für 'n Zeithorizont reden wir denn denn da? Also was sind denn so die Standards, die ihr so zuletzt abgesegnet habt, final, ja, die wir jetzt vielleicht auch schon kennen, weil sie schon öffentlich sind und und und und fertig so und was sind so die Themen, an denen ihr jetzt grade arbeitet und wann glaubst Du, seid ihr damit fertig oder seid ihr die Autoren damit fertig? Gibt da eine relativ große Spannbreite, so manche Features, die sind halt klein. Ja, das ist halt irgend eine, was weiß ich, CSS Verbesserung, die die cool ist und die man haben will, die winkt man durch. Ja, und so was geht wahrscheinlich innerhalb von 'nem Jahr so über die die Bühne. Also so Endspiel. 3 Features. Ja und? Schnell. Okay. Und dann kann das nach oben ist dann im Prinzip keine Grenzenhaufen. 5 Jahre ist, glaube ich, ein guter, ungefährer Zeitraum. Jetzt kann man zum Beispiel gerade die die prompt API nehmen. Das ist ein Beispiel, wo man sich auch wirklich, wo viel diskutiert werden muss. Die der Zugriff erlaubt auf ein Language Model. Was ist eine Language Model API und aktuell liegt es quasi auf deinem eigenen Browser Home. Und jetzt gibt's dazu alle möglichen Diskussionspunkte. Es wird aktuell implementiert von Chrome, das geshept jetzt auch und Edge beispielsweise. Die haben aber unterschiedliche Modelle hinten dran. Das heißt, es kann Interoperabilitätsprobleme geben. Du kannst aber nicht gucken, was für ein Modell ist es denn? Also von der API Stelle her. Dann ist die Apple Rückmeldung finden wir nicht gut. Zum Beispiel gerade wegen der Interoperabilitätssachen. Also kann es sein, dass der dass die Schnittstelle krummium only bleibt. Es kann sein, dass der Ansatz cool ist, sich ausbreitet oder man sagt, das ist eine Sackgasse, machen wir lieber ganz anders. Es gibt zum Beispiel auch WebNN, ist eine andere Schnittstelle, wo man Modelle lokal im Browser betreiben kann. Muss das Modell selber mitbringen. Hat den Vorteil, Du weißt genau, mit welchem Modell Du redest, hat den Nachteil, Du musst es erst runterladen. Und so hat man quasi bis am Ende erst ein magisches Dreieck vor dir und muss gucken, ja, was ist denn jetzt der richtige Ansatz? Sind's alle? Ist es nur 1 davon? Gibt manchmal gibt's auch keine Lösung, weil wir ja keine Glaskugel haben. Manchmal weiß es erst aus der Rückschau. Weiteres Beispiel Es gab mal den Gedanken, ob man JQUERY nicht einfach mit dem Browser shippt, weil das jede Website nutzt. Ja, in der Rückschau sehr gut, dass wir es nicht gemacht haben. Ja, das ist jetzt immer das Problem. Wenn einmal was im Web ist, Teil der Plattform ist, dann ist es das in aller Regel. Es gibt Ausnahmen für immer. Ja, die Webseite von 94 funktioniert heute noch. Die sieht heute noch genauso aus wie vor über 30 Jahren. Und das ist ja immer der Anspruch. Sobald es einmal Teil der Plattform ist, ist es das für den Rest der Zeit und insofern, ja, muss man halt vorsichtig sein. Und deswegen darf auch son Experimentierzyklus länger dauern. Und was sind denn, also Du hast jetzt diese AI Themen schon so angesprochen, die sind ja sehr neu. So, also da da, ne, das ist ja keine Iteration aufm bestehendes Browser Feature oder Richtig, ja. Neu und Fehlt da so das das Analog son bisschen dazu vielleicht. Und was sind denn so so Feature Iterationen, an denen ihr grade dransitzt? Also wo's jetzt nicht darum geht, ne, eine komplett neue Cafability zu schauen, sondern eher so, wir arbeiten grade an, ne, sowas wie halt HTML in Canvas oder so. Mhm. Also Webspeech fällt mir jetzt grade ein, aber ich kann auch gleich gern mal eine Liste aufmachen. Webspeech ist gibt's ja schon und kann man oder auch hier ist die gleiche Sache. Aktuell funktioniert das so. Das ist für die Spracherkennung, dass Du quasi den Sprach Feed gegen die Cloud schickst. Und dann wird das quasi transkribiert und kommt quasi als Ergebnis zurück. Und die Idee ist, wir würden das gerne lokal machen. Also ist hier eine Iteration. Die Webspeech API ist keine Ahnung wie alt, sehr alt und bekommt jetzt retro fitted quasi diese Möglichkeit zur lokalen Verarbeitung mit dazu. Das wär jetzt 'n Beispiel für eine immer noch Zusammenhang, aber für quasi eine rückwirkende Anpassung von einem von so 1 API. Ich mache kaum unsere Review Liste auf WebMC fällt mir direkt noch ein. Das wird auch gerade diskutiert, dass zum Beispiel auch Chromium dafür. Auch bei uns hart das Projekt in der Programmierbar. Gibt da jemanden, der glaubt da nicht dran? Okay, ja, wunderbar. Und das ist weiter willkommen. Willkommen in meiner Welt. Denn es muss im Prinzip dir beide Seiten anhören und muss dann am Ende, das ist nämlich immer so das Ziel der Tag. Im Idealfall müssen wir auf eine auf ein Ergebnis kommen, auf eine Resolution Finden wir das gut? Heißt es dann, haben wir da Bedenken? Oder sind wir dagegen? So, und da müssen wir uns auf all diese verschiedenen Seiten hören. Ich kenne zum Beispiel auch die die Gegenseite von von WebMCP. Das sind auch Argumente, dabei die stimmen und dann müssen wir auf ein Ergebnis kommen. WebMCP beispielsweise werde ich reviewen und dann muss am Ende wird ein Wörtchen dastehen. Ja, und was das ist, wir haben jetzt noch nicht angefangen, aber das wird dann wird dann kommen und das wird spannend. Quasi sich all die Argumente anzuhören und dann zu überlegen, okay, ist es fürs Web jetzt in Summe gut, in Summe schlecht, überwiegen die Vorteile, den die Nachteile und so weiter. Das ist zum Beispiel ein so ein Fall. Da sollten wir, wenn das fertig ist, noch mal eine Folge zu machen. Ja, auf jeden Fall. Es ist also auf der anderen Seite aber auch mega der Hype, ja, kann ich kann ich auch sagen. Hat hat eine Riesentraktion, löst auch reale Probleme, die es halt gibt. Ja, die aktuellen Agenic Browser sind halt vor allem sehr langsam, also halt den Aufbau der Seite erst verstehen müssen und Screenshot machen. Und da gibt halt Web MCP als programmatischer Weg die Tools, die die Seite bietet mit 'ner Schema Definition von außen aufrufen zu können, mega, den Shortcut, ne? Das würde die Erfahrung von argentischem Brosing erheblich verbessern. Jetzt hast Du ja vorhin gesagt Bitte. Das das Entscheidende oder das Allererste auf eurer Prioritätenliste ist so für die Nutzer und Nutzerinnen, ja. Und wenn wenn wir hier so diskutieren, dann diskutieren wir schon so aus sonem sehr technischen Level und was was wir davon halten als Entwickler. Wir sind ja nur auf Nummer 2 auf eurer Liste so. Ja. Wie findet ihr denn in soner Diskussion die die Nutzerinnenperspektive, weil die meisten oder wahrscheinlich alle von euch sind ja eher, kommen ja eher aus der technischen Ecke, so, ja. Und wie macht ihr da, gibt's da Umfragen? Gibt's da so Panels oder versucht ihr euch einfach da selber so hineinzuversetzen? Wie kommt quasi der der Blickwinkel der Endnutzerin, der für euch ja offensichtlich ganz oben steht, wie kommt der in diese Diskussion rein? Ja, ich fang mal mit dem schwächeren Argument an, mit dem schwächeren Punkt, nämlich dass wir alle ja zugleich auch Nutzer sind, also Du kannst schon mal bei dir selber anfangen. Also was fände ich denn gut? Fehlt mir eine API im Web? Was ist mein Enduser Benefit, den ich ja davon bekomme? Das ist jetzt, wie gesagt, die der schwache 1. Punkt. Der Stärkere 2. Ist, dass es oftmals ja User Research gibt als Teil des Standardisierungsprozesses, wo es dann Umfragen gibt, also wo tatsächlich das User Research auch durchgeführt wird, halt eben herauszufinden, ist das jetzt was, was gebraucht wird? Genau. Das ist dann vielleicht eher das, was dann hier auch dem näher kommt. Ja, also ich wollte dir da gar nicht zu nahe gehen oder nicht sagen, dass der das nicht kann, aber ich stell mir das halt schon teilweise auch schwierig vor, weil man selbst ist ja immer son bisschen biased dann so, ne. Und man ist ja als Selbst, wenn Du hast vollkommen recht, wir sind alle auch Nutzer und Nutzerinnen, aber ich würde nicht sagen, dass wir repräsentativ sind für die Art und Weise, wie der Großteil der Menschen da draußen das Web halt benutzt und versteht. Und das ist ja dann immer so dieser Disconnect, den man irgendwie überbrücken muss. Richtig. Und das stimmt. Also diese Bios existieren ja in in jederlei Hinsicht. Ich bin jetzt ja auch Entwickler und kein Wendler, ja, das sind die wiederum, die werden dort haben andere Sicht wieder was Entwickler sind, ja und was die denn brauchen und aber das ist exakt die Idee, ja, deswegen, Du hast am Anfang angesprochen, deswegen gehe ich auch auf Konferenzen weltweit, weil das ja das World Wide Web ist und ich deswegen auch hören möchte, was Entwicklerinnen und Entwickler und Nutzerinnen Nutzer weltweit dann zu sagen haben und was die über das Web denken. Und jo, damit versuchen wir auch son bissel, 'n Feedbackkanal zu bekommen. Weitere weiteres Beispiel vielleicht noch für eine kontroversere API ist die Digital Credentials API. Kommt, gibt's in USA schon. In der EU wird grade, dass dass die ALDI Wallets diskutiert, also die Möglichkeit, seinen Personalausweis in die Wallet des Gerätes hochzuladen, dass Du dann digitalen ja, Perso hast. Ist eine coole Sache und die Digital Credentials API gibt dann quasi Webseiten Zugriff auf besagten Personalausweis in der Wallet. Das ist dann wieder eine mindestens diskutierwürdige Sache, weil das in alle möglichen Richtungen missbräuchlich verwendet werden kann. Denn alles, was wir im Web an Fähigkeiten anbieten, alles, was wir Entwicklern zur Verfügung stellen, kann halt auch wieder genutzt werden von Leuten, die es nicht so gut meinen. Und wenn das jetzt sehr einfach wird, auf Identitätsdaten zuzugreifen, dann kann man sich schon denken, was passieren wird. Ja, das so eine Werbeanzeige oder Fake Download Button und dann heißt, wenn Du diese App runterladen willst, dann gib mir doch bitte mal deinen Namen und deine Anschrift beispielsweise. Kann man dann auch nutzen, Altersprüfung im Web umzusetzen, dass quasi die Seite selber prüft. Sag mal dein Ausweis, ja, ist auch schon Media Verbot, wird beispielsweise diskutiert. Auch gerade ließe sich damit umsetzen. Ist es gut? Ist es schlecht? Ist das Zensur? Ist es valide? Ist es legitim? Teilweise ist ist die Diskussion auch größer als halt nur das Web. Teilweise müssen die Diskussionen halt Gesellschaften und Länder unter sich führen. Aber das wär noch 'n weiteres Beispiel, was auch eine gesellschaftliche Relevanz hat. Super, superspannend. Wenn Du, losgelöst von dem, woran ihr jetzt grade konkret arbeitet, so über das w 3 c und tt ag nachdenkst, was sind so ein, 2 Sachen, von denen Du denkst, die funktionieren jetzt schon sehr gut strukturell, organisatorisch? Und was sind so vielleicht ein, 2 Sachen, wo Du sagst so, boah, wenn ich hier einen Wunsch frei hätte, dann würde ich das grundlegend ändern, diese Regel einführen, diese Regel abschaffen, keine Ahnung. Ich glaub, da habe ich keine direkte Antwort tatsächlich. Ich bin ja quasi formal erst seit Februar dabei mit dem Associate, quasi so anderthalb Jahre Und ich lerne halt noch und ich schaue mir das noch an. Aktuell habe ich keinen wirklichen Änderungsvorschlag, wie es besser machen könnte, ohne die Grundzüge des Web infrage zu stellen im Prinzip. Wie gesagt, so was wie Konsensfindung ist langsam und ist anstrengend. Manchmal brauchst Du 5 Meetings, zum Ergebnis zu kommen, was am Anfang eigentlich schon absehbar war. Ja, und mit allem, was man kennt, wo dann quasi alles schon gesagt wurde und nur noch nicht von jedem. Also so was, das kommt dann durchaus auch vor. Das macht's langsam und anstrengend. Will ich deswegen einstellen wollen. Ich glaube nicht, es geht dann sogar auf andere Bereiche des Lebens über. Also wenn ich dann privat irgendwas organisiere, beispielsweise ist mir Konsens viel wichtiger, als dass da auf einmal so das ja, aber 5 von 9 waren dafür. Also das ist auch das ist sone Kultursachen. Und klar, ich mein auch noch mal die Kulturfrage. Es ist ein World Wide Web, Du hast alle möglichen Kulturen da drin. Und jo, ich glaube insofern ist das Vorgehen, soweit ich sehe, richtig oder ich hätte keinen konkreten Ich mein, das ist ja 'n positiver Indikator, ne. Also ich mein, wenn's jetzt was wirklich Schlimmes wär, was dir schon in den ersten paar Monaten aufgefallen wäre, dann wär's ja nur 'n umso stärkerer Indikator sozusagen, ja, wenn wir jetzt sagen, ja nur 'n umso stärkerer Indikator sozusagen, ja. Wenn man jetzt sagt, es gibt erst mal per se nix, ist das ja auch kein kein schlechtes Zeichen. So, wir haben gar nicht darüber gesprochen, weil Du grad gesagt hast, Du bist ja erst seit 'n paar Monaten dabei. Für wie lange wird man da reingewählt? Es sind 2 Jahre und widerwahl im Prinzip unbegrenzt möglich. Das ist auch die Komposition ganz schön. Wir haben Leute, die beides auch schon viele, viele, viele Jahre sind und dann manche sind jetzt eben ganz frisch mit dabei und auch das ist eine coole Sache. Denn auch hier Software Architekt bin ich auch schon lang gewesen von Beruf her. Es ist aber auch noch mal was anderes, wie dann Browserarchitektur ist, die ich nicht kenne, weil ich halt quasi kein Browserentwickler bin. Und ja, das sind halt Dinge, die man sich dann halt erst drauf schaffen muss mit der Zeit und wo man den Input braucht von Browser Herstellern. Denn darf man auch nicht vergessen bei allem, auch wenn dann quasi die Hersteller hinter uns dann noch mal stehen, hinter den Entwicklerinnen und Entwicklern, am Ende zahlen die das, zahlen die die Browserentwicklung und die ist sehr, sehr, sehr teuer. Und wir nutzen die Produkte alle for free und darf man auch nicht vergessen quasi in der in dem Zusammenspiel. Hab mal die Zeit, wo wir bezahlt haben für die Browser noch. Ich würd überhaupt nicht bezahlen auch heute noch dafür, aber das ist, glaub ich, eine andere Diskussion. Auf eine andere Art, genau. Ja. Ja. Richtig. Also ich glaub, Apple nagt nicht am Hungertuch, nur weil sie Safari bezahlen müssen. So. Aber ja, also Du hast natürlich vollkommen recht, das ist 'n sehr anderes Modell, so. Und sie sind jetzt nicht unbedingt hart oder sie müssten nicht hart darauf incentivet sein, da so viel Zeit und Energie reinzustecken, wie sie grade machen. Ja, und wir haben die die Alternative gesehen, ja, weil sich an die IE 6 Seiten erinnert, ja, oder son bisschen kurz davor, diese Seite ist optimiert für, ja. Wir wollen, glaube ich, nicht zurück in eine Welt, wo sich die, wenn Du dann nicht an einem Tisch sitzen, sitzt Aber weggucken. Aber Du fühlst Silver da teilweise schon wieder. Also es ist mir jetzt schon 'n paarmal in den letzten Monaten begegnet, dass ich eine Seite aufmacht. Die Seite, die wir jetzt gerade aufhaben, diesen Podcast aufzuzeichnen, hier, Riverside, wenn Du die 'n Safari aufmachst oder 'n Firefox, dann sagt er dir auch erst mal, boah, willst Du nicht Chrome runterladen? Die funktionier viel besser mit Chrome, so, ja? Es ist nicht ganz so schlimm wie früher, dass dann alles blockiert und kaputtgeht oder so, aber es ist schon son Nudge, wo ich mir denk, wir waren schon mal weiter. Das stimmt, kann ich nachvollziehen. Ich glaube, dass es sich an manchen Fronten aber auch verbessert. Also das WebGPU beispielsweise ist es auch in in Safari gesipped. Also Möglichkeit, Low Level mit der Grafikkarte zu sprechen. Web Serial API ist jetzt nach Jahren, ich glaub, es sind 10 Jahre oder so was, ich glaub, 20 13 war der 1. Commit, ist jetzt in Firefox geshappt. Das heißt, nach gar Ahnung, was weiß ich, was noch nie vielen Jahren nach 'ner Dekade hat es diese Schnittstelle auch in Firefox quasi geschafft. Also ich höre schon, dass und auch hier ist er wieder Nutzerfeedback, Entwicklerfeedback wichtig und gut und führt auch zu einem Umdenken, sagen wir's so. Weil niemand will, ne, auch die Browsersteller wollen solche Seiten nicht sehen, die sagen, nur zu Chrome. Das ist nicht, wo wir hinwollen. Was ist dein Take, wir hatten da vor Ewigkeiten meine News Folge, glaube ich, drüber diskutiert, als es wie heißt dieser Browser von den OpenAI hat, Commitment, nee. Commitment, ja. Nee, Atlas. Atlasity hat's. Also, genau, als es die beiden ging und dieses kleine Start-up, was grade versucht, sone Browser Engine komplett neu, Servo, Ladybird. Ladybird, genau. Ja, Ladybird. Ja klar, Servo ist ja. Wie wie realistisch schätzt Du das ein? Weil wir haben da auch in dieser Folge son bisschen hin- und her diskutiert. Und wie Du sagst, ne, wir sind alle groß geworden in der Zeit, wo's tatsächlich ab und zu noch mal andere Browser gab. Also ich kann mich erinnern, als Oprah irgendwie neu war und die hatten so Tabs, das war revolutionär krass, das hatte kein anderer so, ja. Und das war mal so richtig son Grund, den Browser zu wechseln. Oder als Firefox rauskam damals und so superschlank war und schneller war was, ja. Aber das waren halt auch ganz andere Zeiten. Da war halt 'n Browser noch eine viel kleinere Anwendung, ja? Also jede dieser Schnittstellen, die Du gerade aufgezählt hast, ist ja nur ein Punkt mehr auf der To do Liste, die Du quasi implementieren musst, überhaupt erst mal dahin zu kommen, wo jetzt schon alle anderen sind. Und da hast Du noch keinen Schritt mehr gemacht als die Bestandsplayer sozusagen, ja? Also wie realistisch ist es überhaupt, dass es irgendjemand jetzt aus dem Stand schaffen kann, einen vollkommen neuen Browser, eine vollkommen neue Browser Engine et cetera überhaupt zu zu bauen? Glaub, Nettime Frage. Ich hab, Lady Bird muss ich gestehen, glaube ich, letztes Mal vor 'nem Jahr gesehen, wie da der Entwicklungsstand war. Aber ich meine, da hat man schon mal Webseiten zumindest erkennen können. Ja, ja, die können mittlerweile nennen. So, ja. Okay, super. Wir haben's aber aufm Schirm. Also es ist auch bei der Tag auf dem Schirm, weil das ja was Spannendes ist. Ja, eine neue Engine, also geht uns dann dort genauso, die die dann dort hochkommt. Ja, die Frage ist legitim. Kann man das überhaupt schaffen, noch mal so einen kompletten Browser von vorne hinzuzimmern? Weil das ist so, es strömen ständig neue APIs, neue Features, neue Rendering Features quasi ins ins Web dazu. Und ein Faktor, der ich hier Und das nächste Mal ist ja das, was wir aktuell sehen, sind ja alles Abspaltungen ja auch teilweise voneinander, ne. Also zum Beispiel ist ja Chrome eine Webgate Abspaltung ursprünglich mal gewesen. Und insofern hat man sich auch da Aufwand gespart. Und Web geht ja wiederum meine von Kater, Kater Mail, was glaube ich. Und ja, kann das ändern, weil man hier mühelos im Prinzip die SPACs einfach mal hernehmen könnte und die in einen füttern lassen könnte und dann damit 'n Browser bauen kann. Habe ich allerdings noch nicht gesehen. Es wird auch im Hintergrund spekuliert, wann denn jetzt der 1. Seinen Browser mal auf Rust umzieht. Auch das wäre mit denkbar. In übersichtlicher Zeit muss man ein bisschen Tokens verbrennen, aber Bestandscode umzuziehen habe ich aber bisher noch nicht gesehen, Aber für die Zukunft. Warum nicht? Ich meine, das das Coole bei den B3C Specs ist halt gerade wenn sie, wenn es Recommendations sind und es die Implementierungserfahrung auch noch gibt. Also den Stempel gibt's in aller Regel erst dann, wenn sie auch noch in dem Browser drin geschippt ist. Dann sind die SPACs so robust, dass Du wirklich hernehmen kannst und einfach runter implementieren kannst. Vielleicht auch noch ein Faktor, wie 3C Standards sind alle offen, sind alle gratis, sind alle patentfrei. Kannst das Ding hernehmen und kannst es implementieren. Und insofern gäb's da keine Hürde. Und ja, wer weiß, vielleicht macht das mal jemand. Cool. Jetzt ist ja Despec das eine. Weil hab hier grad 'n Artikel aufgemacht, der der ist mir vor 'n paar Wochen übern Weg gelaufen und da geht es darum, wie viel Custom Code zum Browser eigentlich ship, so die großen Webseiten befriedigen zu können, ne, weil die halt eben nicht spec konform unterwegs sind oder wenn man sie spec konform rendern würde, quasi nichts mehr davon funktionieren würde. Und das ist wohl so, dass es zumindest für Chrome und Safari ist das wohl relativ einsehbar, was die wohl so zur Runtime noch da reinpatchen. Und da gibt's quasi für alle dieser großen Seiten, also wenn ich mir eine Liste angucke, dass irgendwie Discord Mitarbeiter ist, Office Mitarbeiter ist, Black Mitarbeiter ist, Google selbst Mitarbeiter ist, Netflix mit dabei. So und quasi keine dieser Seiten würde funktionieren, wenn alle nur so bei the SPAC arbeiten würden. Und das ist ja auch quasi eine 'n Erfahrungswert so, ja. Also zum einen könntet ihr da drauf gucken und sehen, okay, da da scheitert also die SPAC quasi, entweder weil sie nicht umgesetzt werden kann oder weil sie schlecht implementiert ist oder irgendwie passender Wunsch und Wirklichkeit nicht nicht ganz zusammen. Und auf der anderen Seite ist das auch genau dann so die Differenz, wo jeder, der jetzt 'n neuen Browser bauen will, quasi auch draufgucken kann und sagt, na ja, hier muss ich ja eigentlich von der SPAC abweichen, weil sonst hab ich überhaupt gar keine Chance. Weil wenn ich mich nur SPAC konform verhalte, dann funktioniert am Ende Slack bei mir nicht und alle brauchen irgendwie Slack oder so. Ja, ich kenn die Listen bei Firefox kann man die auch schön einsehen. So, ich kenne sie aber nicht genau genug, deswegen will ich mich nicht allzu aus dem Fenster lehnen, aber manchmal liegt das auch das Problem auch auf Seiten der Websitebetreiber. Und dann ist halt einfach der Impact viel zu groß, als dass man da in Kauf nehmen will, dass halt so eine Riesenseite wie, sagen wir mal, YouTube irgendwo nicht funktioniert. Ja, aber es gibt die, es gibt die Liste. Stimmt. Ist auch witzig, sich den Sourcecode anzuschauen. Also teilweise manchmal wirklich banale Sachen. So, ja, wo halt irgendwie son CSS Selektor umgebogen wird, einfach damit die Seite ordentlich aussieht. Und manchmal ist es nur son Javascript alias oder so, aber es ist Ganz verrückt, aber oft ist liegt's an der Seite selber, die müsste es mixen. Ja. Aber trotzdem krass, dass ja offensichtlich irgendjemand bei Firefox und Chrome und allen so einfach nur damit beschäftigt wird, so zu schauen, okay, machen wir eine von diesen großen Seiten Genau. Oder müssen wir da was patchen? So. Ja. Ja gut, die Motivation ist ja auch klar. Du hast am Ende der Browser ist derjenige, der am Ende zig 1000 Issues offen hat, Ja. Ne? Das heißt, das liegt auch in deren Interesse, dass man das halt vermeidet. Ja. Hast Du noch eine Frage, Dennis? Nein. Nein? Oster, habt ihr einen Pick of the day? Aber jetzt haben wir, ich will's dann Es geht zu schnell, ich hab nur da schon mal vorweggebracht. Ach so, steht zu langsam hier, willst Du sagen? Wir sind zu langsam. Christian, hast Du noch eine Frage, über die Du dich wunderst, dass wir sie dir nicht gestellt haben und Du denkst, ich war so gut vorbereitet, über das Thema x y zu sprechen und jetzt hat mich niemand darauf angesprochen, ich bin traurig. Nee, ich hab eine Ergänzung hab ich noch so im Hinterkopf, die ich vorhin sagen wollte. Wichtig ist noch die Abgrenzung, dass das Betra erzählt. Das rät jetzt immer ums World Wide Web und weiß nicht, das Internet als Ganzes. Ja, also Internet hat immer andere Standardisierungsgremien, Gremien, IETF und so. Die beiden, das bleibt trotzdem. Das ist Web, ist die Killerapplikation das Internet, aber das ist wichtig zur Begriffsklärung. Und zum zweiten will ich einfach noch mal meinen Aufruf wiederholen, den ich quasi schon zuvor genannt hatte in diesem Podcast. Also gerichtet an alle, die die das hier hören. Ja, ich bin immer interessiert daran bewegt sich das in die richtige Richtung. Fehlt was? Sollte etwas nicht drin sein? Und bin froh, wenn ich da Input bekomme. Wirklich egal von woher. Und ich bring es sehr gerne zu den großen Browser Herstellern und zu den Leuten, die die Webstandards schreiben. Und ja, würde mich freuen, von euch zu hören. Wo können die Leute dich am besten erreichen, wenn sie Input haben? Am besten einfach den Namen googeln, Christian Liebe. Dann gibt's die Thinktakter Website, kann man auf meinen Namen draufklicken und dann geht direkt das E-Mail-Fensterchen auf und dann kann man mir schreiben. E-Mail ist tatsächlich wahrscheinlich der beste Weg, weil da bleibt's in der Inbox. Ansonsten bin ich aber auch auf jeder auf LinkedIn und jeder Microblogging Plattform, die es so gibt. Genau. Wunderbar. Dann jetzt dein dein Wort zum Übergang. Vorher noch. Okay, okay. Nee, ich dachte, man kann vielleicht auch mal Danke sagen, oder? Also ich mein, es ist ja am Ende, also nicht nur, dass Du den Podcast catelst, es kommt ja später noch, das machst Du mir sicher eben abgesangen auf das Volk das heißt, ja. Aber sonst ja auch irgendwo cool, dass Du dich da so engagiert. Ich mein, das braucht ja auch die Leute, die da irgendwie die Motivation haben, sich dahinter zu klemmen und da jede Woche Energie und Zeit rein zu investieren, das Ganze zu tun. Natürlich auch Unternehmen, die es unterstützen Thinktuure, von daher auch sehr cool, dass sie das machen. Aber natürlich auch, ja, besonders an dich, dass Du das so mit vorantreibst. Einfach mal stellvertretend für alle Entwickler*innen, die es grade zugehört haben, einen Und die, die nicht zugehört haben auch. Für die kann ich ja nicht reden. Für die, die zuhören, können jetzt abschalten, wenn sie nicht der Meinung sind. Nein. Ja, cool, dass Du das machst. Ja, nimm lang. Pause, jetzt Übergang, Dennis. Das war's. Grüß dich, ja? Ja. Okay. Wieso? Ja, unser Intro Sound ist ja, den wir hier lokal hören, ist 'n anderer als der Ja, ja, den anderen interessant haben wir irgendwie nicht hier hochgeladen. Okay, deswegen. Den feier ich, den mag ich, den Pick of Pick of the day Sound. Jedes Mal, wenn ich den hör, die ersten 5 Sekunden feier ich den und dann bin ich so Bist Du ich glaub, ist 'n bisschen zu lang. Ja. Na ja. Okay. Picks of the day. Dennis, Du hast gesagt, Du hast was, bis wir eine Stunde lang gesprochen haben. Jetzt hast Du eine Stunde 12 gehabt. Hast 'n Pick? Ja, ich nehme noch den gleichen, Du wirst ihn nicht mögen, ist mir erst Ach so. Egal. Mein Pick ist Jetzt bin ich gespannt. Youtube aufmachen und Tesla FSD Deutschland eingeben. Genau. Also eigentlich, deswegen hab ich am Anfang gefragt, wann wird die Folge released, weil ich hatte die Woche eine Probefahrt mit FSD, wo man jetzt so begleitet, mitfahren darf bei Tesla. Da sitzt Du dann Personen im im Fahrersitz und voll autonom kann man sich eine Adresse aussuchen und das Auto fährt ja dann dahin. Und ich hab es davor auch viel auf Social Media gesehen, eben wenn man einfach nach Tesla FSD Deutschland sucht. Und ich finde halt, es ist noch mal Unterschied. Ich mein, man hat vielleicht schon Videos gesehen aus Amerika und breite Streissen, keine Ahnung, was so. Wenn man das mal dann in Action sieht, wie's auf deutschen Straßen, in engen Innenstädten und so was funktioniert. Von daher, das einfach mal als kleine Watch Empfehlung, guckt euch mal 10 Minuten irgendwie Stream, ich stream 10 Minuten Video an, wie ein Tesla durch deutsche Straßen fährt und drückt die Daumen. Ich hab gestern gelesen, es ist jetzt schon das 5., aber das ist jetzt auch schon outdated, also wenn wir diese Folge aufnehmen, aber das 5. Europäische Land hat er sich schon zugelassen. Also in den letzten 48 Stunden sind noch viel Länder dazugekommen nach den Niederlanden. Also 'n bisschen Bewegung ist da grade drin. Ja. Also ich muss auch sagen, ich hab als ich hab's ja nur in San Francisco mit dem Waymo gemacht und ich hab mich schon sehr sicher gefühlt, weil die Straßen entsprechend breit sind, so. Und auch wenn's mal eine Situation gab, wo er son bisschen quasi Gegenverkehr ausweichen musste oder 'n Fahrradfahrer kam oder so, wenn einfach deine Spur noch 2 Meter hergibt, dann ist es halt was anderes, als wenn Du jetzt hier, weiß ich nicht, in Bad Nauheim durchs Dorf wärst und Ja. Da halt so Normbreite hast. Seitenspiegel plus 30 Zentimeter und fertig. Ja, bin gespannt. Ich glaub, die haben das ja, in Niederlanden war das zuerst, ne. Genau, nie. Da hab ich die ersten Videos damals gesehen und das war ja, also gefühlt sind die Straßen ja noch enger als bei uns und ganz oft auch quasi nur so einspurig und ohne son durchgezogenen Mittelstreifen und so was. Klar. Und Amsterdam immer so brutal, was Fahrräder angeht und Menschen, die rumlaufen so parallel. Ja. Aber ja. Und für dich, Christian, Du hast doch die Chance, weil die die Folge noch jetzt frühzeitig Also Du guck, ob Du noch 'n Termin findest, falls Du das noch nicht gemacht hast, da kann man registrieren für. Ja, aber Christian ist hab ich mir bestimmt auch schon mal hier so Robo Taxi in in Amerika gefahren. Ebenfalls die die Waymos. Dieses Jahr, als ich auf der Google io war, wurde es auf das Gebiet erweitert. Also Du kannst es auch quasi in der restlichen Bay fahren und bald auch auf dem Highway, also wo ich dort war, gab's es schon für Betatesterinnen und Tester. Weil wenn man bei 'nem Auto- und Betatester, ich weiß nicht, das ist also so. Ja. Der ich aber leider nicht bin, insofern konnte ich noch nicht über den den Highway fahren und was bald kommt, sind so Busse, also wo noch mehr Leute reinpassen. Ja, da hab ich schon 'n paar von den Vegas gesehen, als wir jetzt da waren. Also ist nicht son Bus, ist da eher son großer Van vielleicht, sag ich's mal, ja, für so 6 Leute oder so. Ja. Aber Genau. Ja, war auch schon Sah ganz cool aus. Okay, Pick of the day. Christian, was hast Du am Start? Ja, als hätten wir uns abgesprochen, ich hab ein Buch mitgebracht. Vielleicht kennst Du das, ja, so Bücher, die man irgendwann mal kauft und viel zu lange irgendwie im im Schrank auch rumliegen, aber ich Ganz egal, Freund. Ja, mir geht's auch so. Aber ich hab jetzt für den Langstreckenflug dann dorthin auch ein Buch raus gekramt. Es nennt sich Kit Shut mied don't How we thing about for Future ist von Nick Foster und es geht Zukunft im weiten Sinne. Und es startet mit 1 Frage, nämlich mach die Augen zu und stell dir Zukunft vor. Was siehst Du? Und ich hab irgendwie so an meine persönliche Zukunft gedacht, aber gemeint war offenbar selbstfahrende Autos und Robotaxis und humanoide Roboter mit neonblauem LED Mantel. Der Autor hier ist quasi in so Zukunftsabteilungen von vielen Unternehmen unterwegs gewesen. Und ja, ist ja immer die Frage, was nimmt man sich vor als Projekt? Und ja, das ist halt wahrscheinlich nicht jetzt die fliegende Status oder so was, sondern halt irgendwas Erreichbareres. Auf das scheint das Buch hinauszugehen. Ich hab's noch nicht ganz durch. Also es geht entlang der verschiedenen Zukunfts Futuristen Typen geht's durch, nämlich Kurt, might und don't. Ich habe jetzt gerade das Kapitel Kurt abgeschlossen. Also der könnte Futurist, der meistens irgendwie schrill aussieht, irgendwelche Szenarien aufmalt, aber eigentlich keine Detailfragen dazu beantworten kann und dann vielleicht die die Kulisse dann doch auch schnell wieder zusammenbricht. Bin gespannt, was die anderen Typen dann noch so in sich verbergen. Also Shirt, might und don't und vermute, was dann die These ist, nämlich dass man wahrscheinlich so ein Mix von allem mitbringen soll, wenn man über die Zukunft denkt. Und so was wie selbstfahrende Autos ist ja eigentlich eine schöne Vorstellung. Ja. Ich war mal vor, als wir auf der via Devilop Us waren zusammen vor 2 oder 3 Jahren, war ja auch die Abschlusskeynote von sonem Futurist gehalten, der bei irgendwie einem dieser großen Techfirmen, Microsoft oder Google oder so kam der, glaub ich, her. Mhm. Und da dachte ich mir schon auch, das ist 'n abgefahrener Job. Also wenn Du einfach nur so damit dafür beschäftigt wirst, darüber nachzudenken, Wieso? Wie das denn so in Zukunft irgendwie aussehen könnte. Und der war auch eher vom Typ her, wie Christian grade gesagt hat, so bisschen extravagant im Auftreten, bisschen schrill in den Slides, bisschen sehr fragil, wenn man nachgefragt hat, aber gedacht so, ja, warum nicht, wenn man Spaß daran hat irgendwie? Ja, muss man, glaube ich, der Typ für sein, aber sah ganz lustig aus. Ich hab einen Pick dabei, der eher sich die Gegenwart dreht. Hat 1 von euch Silicon Valley geguckt? Die, es war, glaub ich, 1 HBO Serie ist schon rum. Nein. Nein? Nein? Nein? Nein? Okay. Ich weiß nicht, ob Okay, dann klottwist, das ist jetzt mein Pick, weil ihr habt das noch nicht geguckt. Ich wollt eigentlich was darauf aufbauen, Pipp, aber wenn ihr das noch nicht mal kennt, dann picken wir jetzt ganz kurz Silicon Valley. Okay. Silicon Valley ist eine Serie, die ist, glaub ich, jetzt schon 'n paar Jahre rum, hat auch nur son paar wenige Staffeln und erzählt im Prinzip die Geschichte von sonem sehr jungen Start-up, die versuchen, mit so diversesten Ideen erfolgreich zu sein eben im Valley. Erst mal sone Musikplattform, dann finden Sie nebenbei son abgefahrenen Kompressionsalgorithmus und wollen damit irgendwie groß rauskommen. Und das ist halt ein sehr, sehr dünner Mantel die aktuelle Tech Bubble rum. Also es gibt eine Firma, die quasi 1 zu 1 'n Klon ist von Google, wo Du auch 1 zu 1 die Leute davon irgendwie erkennst. Das hat nur der Name und die Farben so ganz leicht geändert, Das Apple ist irgendwie da so, ja. Und das wurde damals sehr gefeiert, weil das halt superlustig und und schrill und und so was alles ist. Auch eine echt gute Comedy, gut geschrieben, gut gespielt. Aber alle, die sich halt so mit dem Valley auskennen, haben halt damals gesagt, nee, ist halt genauso. Also auch wenn alle darüber lachen und das irgendwie mega überzogen wirkt, halt genauso passiert das halt so, 1 zu 1. Ich sag mal, die 1. Folge fängt irgendwie damit an, dass sie bei sonem Investor auf soner Gartenparty sind und Kit Rock spielt irgendwie im Garten für seine Gäste so, ja, und irgendjemand im Publikum meint so zu seinem Freund im Vorbeigehen so, ja, glaubst Du, KitRock ist mir darüber bewusst, dass er die armste Person auf diesem ganzen Gelände irgendwie ist so, ja? Und also ich glaub wirklich, genauso ticken da die Leute manchmal, ja? Und kann man kann man nur empfehlen. Also Silicon Valley, es gibt abgefahrene Charaktere, es gibt sehr sympathische Nerds, so wie Big Bang Theory am Anfang auch war, ja, als man noch mit den Leuten gelacht hat und nicht über die Leute, fand ich's mehr cool. Ich nehm das jetzt als Ad hocic. Silicon Valley. Wenn ihr's noch nicht geguckt habt, unbedingt nachholen. Und wenn ihr's durchgeguckt habt, gibt es Hebt ihr's auf. Nein, nein, nein, hat auch noch mit Silicon Valley zu tun. Das wurde, glaub ich, nämlich nie als Folge ausgestrahlt, aber es gibt ein, weiß nicht, sozusagen, geht nur 10, 15 Minuten. Das haben sie damals exklusiv auf Youtube veröffentlicht. Das muss man unbedingt auch noch gucken, weil da wird quasi die Geschichte erst so richtig fertig gemacht und ja. Cool. Das als mein Pick. Sehr gut. Ja, dann, also auch wenn Dennis schon Danke gesagt hat, quasi für alle, die zuhören und oder nicht zuhören, jetzt vielleicht nicht mehr zuhören, indem er Danke gesagt hat. Christian, trotzdem noch mal auch von mir, 1000 Dank. Schön, dass Du da warst. Danke, dass Du dir die Zeit genommen hast. Fand's superinteressant, da mal so hinter die Kulissen des Webs zu gucken oder das Internet ist auch ein Teil davon. Mega cool und wir sollten auf alle Fälle, wenn diese WebMCP Nummer 'n bisschen durchgelaufen ist und ihr da eine Meinung habt und es da eine Entscheidung gibt, lass uns da gerne auch noch mal drüber sprechen. Da können wir vielleicht mal schauen so, wie war so der Prozess? Was ist da jetzt am Ende wirklich bei rausgekommen und wie finden wir das eigentlich so? Ja. Und dann schauen wir da noch mal rein. Dann dauert's auch nicht wieder Ja, das muss. Ich wollt grad sagen, dann dauert's auch nicht 5 Jahre, bis wir uns widersprechen, aber das ist vielleicht 'n bisschen, diese komplexeren Feature können auch 5 Jahre dauern, weiß ich jetzt nicht. Das liegt ja schon 'n bisschen. Insofern, das das Review, das wird innerhalb der nächsten Wochen ausgeführt. Okay, Heard it your first. Schauen wir mal, wie's dann wie's dann kommt. Wunderbar. Christian, 1000 Dank, Dennis Danke. 1000 Dank, dass Du da mit dabei warst. Sehr gerne. Wenn ihr Fragen, Anregungen, Kritik habt, die nicht an Christian gehen, sondern an uns, dann gerne eine E-Mail an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar. Auch wir sind auf diversen Social Media Kanälen, LinkedIn, Kurznachrichtendiensten, wo auch immer. Ihr könnt auch gerne auf Youtube oder Spotify 'n Kommentar hinterlassen, den lesen wir auch fleißig mit. Und ansonsten hören wir uns in 1 Woche wieder mit den News. Bis dahin. Ach so. Bis dahin. Tschau, tschau. Bis bald. 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0: Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen Deep Dive hier in der Programmierbar. Heute für euch vor der Kamera, Kamera, vor dem Mikrofon. Ich weiß gar nicht, was mir ihr als Erstes sagt. Ich bin Oh, natürlich. Vor dem Mikrofon.\n\nIch bin der Jan Gregor im Getriebe und zu meiner linken Ecke sitzt\n\nSpeaker 1: Dennis Becker, hallo.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wir wollen heute mit einem Gast sprechen, der uns mit sehr viel Elan gepitcht worden ist. Gepitcht worden von Christian Weiher, der ja, glaub ich, schon mehrfach bei uns im Podcast war und auch schon mehrfach bei uns auf der programmierbar Bühne gestanden hat, auf dem Meet-up, auf der Konferenz, auf, Christian sei eigentlich immer am Start, so. Und der Christian hat uns 'n anderen Christian gepitcht und meinte, mit dem müsst ihr unbedingt mal reden. Und ich glaube, was der Christian, also der 1. Christian, nicht auf dem Schirm hatte, ist, dass der andere Christian auch schon mal bei uns im Podcast war.\n\nHab ich auch schon zweimal Weißt Du noch, wann das war?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ist lange her, würde ich sagen, zumindest 1 von den beiden Malen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Waren beide Male im selben Jahr. Wir waren relativ kurz hintereinander tatsächlich sogar.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich dachte Mal 2022 oder 23.\n\nSpeaker 0: Siehst Du mal, wie man sich irren kann? Oder seit 20 20 war das. So, ganz frühe Programmierbeizeiten Folge 70 und 72 über Web Components und Project Fugu. Weißt Du noch, was das war? Ist gibt's, glaube ich, immer noch, gell?\n\nIch guck mal ich guck mal ganz kurz. Gibt's, glaube ich, noch. Weiß jetzt Nein. Web Browser Kafabilities und so was. Und ähnlich dem Thema wollen wir heute auch widersprechen über Kafabilities und Web und Technik und Infrastruktur und Architektur und was da so alles hintendran Wir wollen heute sprechen mit Christian Diebel und zwar über die w 3 CTAG und was das ist, verrät er uns bestimmt gleich, aber Christian, wenn man bei dir auf dein LinkedIn Profil schaut, da weiß also da weiß man gar nicht, wo man anfangen soll, ja?\n\nIrgendwie GDI, Microsoft, MVP, dann findet man in deinem Feed unendlich viele Konferenzen. Also Du scheinst überall unterwegs zu sein, wo es technisch auch nur ansatzweise spannend wird, so, ja? Und daher freuen wir uns natürlich ganz besonders, dass Du zwischen all dem heute Zeit gefunden hast, mal sone gute Stunde mit uns darüber zu sprechen. Hallo und herzlich willkommen, Christian Liebe.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, hallo. Dann danke für die Einladung. Schön, dass ich wieder hier sein darf. Genau Webcompons et cetera, Project Fu gibt es alles alles noch und ja, über das W3C, über das Web wollen wir heute reden und das ist spannend, definitiv.\n\nSpeaker 0: Vielleicht, bevor wir anfangen, da ins Detail zu gehen, erzähl uns doch mal, warum interessierst Du dich überhaupt so sehr für das Web und warum sollte man sich generell dafür interessieren? Das machen doch schon irgendwelche Leute, die dafür sorgen, dass das alles passt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Gut, das ist eine gute Frage. Meine, ja, Liebe zum Web, die liegt also die fangen schon sehr früh an tatsächlich. Ich glaube, ich bin online, seit ich 4 bin und ich kann mich noch dran erinnern, dass ich Jetzt ist es auch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ohne ohne dir zu nahe treten, das Wort, aber man\n\nSpeaker 2: muss sich, glaube ich, relativieren, wie alt\n\nSpeaker 0: bist Du denn? So, ja, das son bisschen einordnen zu können.\n\nSpeaker 2: 33. Also ich bin seit knapp 30 Jahren online und ich erinnere mich noch an die an die Zeit, an an die an die Anfangszeit. Netzgate, Navigator oder Communicator hatten wir auch mit dem E-Mail-Programm integriert, Version 4 oder was es damals war. Insofern ja, das Web bekleidet mich schon sehr, sehr lange. Damals halt als Nutzer, ich glaube so im Alter von 10, habe ich immer Frontpage installiert und dann ja wollte ich halt auch mal selber sone Webseite bauen.\n\nDa hab ich dann das selber irgendwie durchgesucht, wie man das alles online kriegen kann. Da gab's damals Lykos oder so was, so eine Webseite mit sonem mit sonem schwarzen Hund. Falls euch an das erinnern könnt, da kommt man auch so 'n Free\n\nSpeaker 0: Subhoster war das, ne?\n\nSpeaker 2: Richtig, nur mal einfach kostenlos Sachen hosten konnte und wie gesagt als Zehnjähriger hast Du bissel Taschengeld für Eis, aber halt jetzt nicht direkt für, was weiß ich, 'n Root Server oder so was. Insofern waren das so die Anfänge. Hatte dann im Studium Webengineering belegt, gut, war am Pflichtfach, aber das war auch die Vorlesung, die mir am meisten Spaß gemacht hat. Und dann, als ich in Beruf eingestiegen bin, war halt eben grad der große Switchback von den klassischen Desktop Anwendungen, was ich, WPF Windows Forms hin zum Web. Angularja S war damals und gerade in Phone Gap war groß diskutiert.\n\nAlso die Cross Plattform Geschichte. Und ja, während Studium habe ich mal im Studium mit einem Studienkollegen eine App gebaut, die oder was heißt eine App gebaut? Wir haben eine Website gebaut. Das war ein Spiel, haben wir im Rahmen dieser Web Engineering Vorlesungen entwickelt, war SVG basiert und dann kam damals Microsoft mit Windows 8 die Ecke. Falls ihr euch erinnert, ne, Tablets und Touch und Apps und und alles.\n\nUnd dann haben wir unsere Web App genommen und weil das damals mit Windows 8 ging, die haben HTML 5 Apps so nativ unterstützt, haben einfach diese Anwendung genommen, so wie sie war, in den Windows 8 Rahmen quasi reingeworfen und dann in den Store gestellt und haben dann dort etliche 1000 Downloads bekommen. Ich weiß gar nicht mehr, wie viele das waren. Aber das war so für mich der ja, so die Initialzündung, wo ich gedacht habe, krass, das kann man mit der Technologie machen und wie schnell hast Du eben auch aus soner normalen Webseite eben eine App gebastelt, die dann auch noch gut im Store performt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Vergessen auch immer viele, ne, dass das so auch der Einstieg bei Apple war, so das Allererste.\n\nSpeaker 2: Stimmt. Vor\n\nSpeaker 1: dem SDB, es waren ja auch erst mal nur Web Apps, die Ganz genau. Was immer, US 2 oder wie auch Ich weiß nicht mehr ganz genau, wie das nehmen\n\nSpeaker 0: wir Apple US 1. OS 1 hieß es. IPhone.\n\nSpeaker 1: IPhone. Also\n\nSpeaker 0: sie das noch das Chat hatten zwischen iPhone OS und iPod Touch OS.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und da gab es tatsächlich ja noch keinen Store und das wollten sie auch gar nicht haben, weil das ist ja böse und und gefährlich, wenn da quasi beliebige Software auf dem eigenen Gerät läuft. Und da war in der Tat die Idee, ihr schreibt einfach nur Webseiten und könnt sie dann zum Home Bildschirm hinzufügen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, Suite Solution, wie Steve Jobs damals auf der Bühne verkündet hat.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: So und der Weg vom Microsoft App Store hin zur W3 CTHG, den stelle ich mir nicht gerade linear vor oder ist das so einfach? Wie wie kommt man dann am Ende denn dahin?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ui, ja, nee, der war nicht so linear, der war auch überhaupt nicht vorausgezeichnet. Vielleicht sage ich kurz was zu dem Gremium, was es überhaupt ist. Also dieses ist eine Abkürzung, steht für Technical Architecture Group, also für die Technische Architekturgruppe. Und das ist innerhalb des W3C des Standardisierungs Gremiums für das World Wide Web eine spezielle Arbeitsgruppe, die mit der Sicherstellung, Stewartship heißt es im Englischen, finde ich immer schwer zu übersetzen, die damit beauftragt ist, sagen wir's so, dass das Web quasi auch in Zukunft bestehen bleibt und nicht auseinanderfällt. Also wir sollten gucken, dass der Architektur, das Web zusammengehalten wird, konsistent bleibt, so wie man's halt eben von Architekturboards kennt.\n\nSind 12 Leute nur weltweit, ist gewählt, ein gewähltes Gremium innerhalb des B3C, also ein Teil des gewählten Teil wird besetzt vom B3C Team. Der Erfinder des World Wide Web hat noch so einen Ehrensitz in der Gruppe Sir Tim Berners Lee. Und genau, ich kannte dieses Gremium. Ich wusste, dass es das gibt. Und wie war der Weg dorthin?\n\nIch habe im Kontext von Progressive Webwebs, das hat das auch mit Project Foogel zu tun und ist im Prinzip eine Fortsetzung von iPhone OS, über was wir grad eben geredet haben. Diese Idee quasi, dass wir eine Webseite nehmen und die auf dem Gerät installierbar machen. Also es quasi auch im Browser saß, ich möchte diese App installieren und dann wird die so dargestellt, als sei es eine native Anwendung. Diese Grundidee haben wir tatsächlich damals beim iPhone gesehen und die kam dann so ab, ich sag jetzt mal grob 20 14 15 wieder auf und da wollte man das quasi auch in die übrigen Browser bringen. Und da wurd damals viel implementiert.\n\nServiceworker ist ein Beispiel davon, die Offline Fähigkeit, dass man Webseiten auch komplett offline halten kann auf dem Gerät, dass man nicht mal mehr eine Internetverbindung braucht. Der Serviceworker kann auch Push Benachrichtigungen zum Beispiel entgegennehmen. Da haben Websites zum ersten Mal Push Capabilities bekommen und dann eben auch die Möglichkeit zur Installation, sodass wenn ich dann auf den Button klicke und das Ding, also dann bekommt die Web App quasi einen Eintrag in der Programmliste, in der Task Bar, im Dock auf dem auf dem Startbildschirm des Geräts. Und wenn ich's von da öffne, dann sieht diese App so aus, als sei sie eine aktive Anwendung. Und ich hab im Jahr 20 18 da 'n Buch dazu geschrieben und hab in dem Kontext halt einfach Spezifikationen recherchiert.\n\nUnd zwar insbesondere die Spezifikation des Web Application Manifest. Das ist die SPAC, die sich darum kümmert, die Darstellung der auf dem Gerät installierten App. Also wenn ich sage, ich möchte diese App gerne installieren, dann definiert dieses Manifest das Icon, den Namen der der Anwendung, mögliche Shortcuts, die Hintergrundfarbe, die angezeigt werden soll und so weiter und noch auch vieles weitere mehr. Und in dem Kontext hab ich mir einfach Desback durchgelesen, weil ich das ja im Buch auch quasi dann beschreiben wollte, was man da alles einstellen kann, was Möglichkeiten es gibt und hab mir da Respekt hergenommen und hab dann ganz ja Low key angefangen und hab am Anfang einfach mal ja, typos korrigiert, denen der Spezifikationen waren, so 1. Gestellt.\n\nUnd aus den Hypos wurden dann irgendwann also schon kleinere Features. Und das ist dann bei B3C son Überschreiten von 'ner Schwelle. Denn sobald man substanziell an Spezifikationen arbeitet, muss man W3C Mitglied werden und oder eingeladener Experte sein, ein erweiterter Experte. Das geht auch. Und dann kam damals Leute auf mich zu.\n\nEs waren konkret Leute von Intel gewesen und haben gesagt, hey, das ist doch ziemlich cool, was ihr da macht. Wollt ihr nicht W3C Mitglied werden? Dann haben wir das intern besprochen bei uns bei Thinktacture und haben uns entschieden, das zu machen und sind W3C Mitglied geworden. Das ist jetzt der Start in der Standardisierungswelt gewesen. 20 18 Uhr 19 sind wir Mitglied geworden.\n\nIch war 20 19 und zum ersten Mal bei soner beim Jahrestreffen des w3 c dabei, bei der sogenannten TIPEC. Das ist die Technical Plannery and Advisory Committee Meetingwoche des w3 c, die tatsächlich auch über dem kompletten Planeten verteilt dann immer stattfindet, also jedes Jahr in 'ner anderen Region. Und 20 19 war das in Fukuka gewesen in Südjapan und hab dort zum ersten Mal die Leute kennengelernt. Ja, und gelernt, wie Standardisierungsarbeit funktioniert.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie wie trocken muss ich mir das vorstellen? Also es klingt erst mal sehr trocken, wenn Du so von Standardisierungsarbeit sprichst.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich würd sie nicht als trocken bezeichnen, sie ist extrem langsam. Das muss man wissen. Also selbst einfachste Features brauchen Jahre. Das ist quasi die das ist eher die Eigenschaft, die ich der SPAC Arbeit zuschreiben würde. Trocken ist, finde ich es nicht, weil man das ja immer mit ganz, ganz, ganz vielen Stakeholdern besprechen muss.\n\nEs gibt zum einen ja erst mal 3 unabhängig Browser Engines. Das heißt, mit denen muss man reden und mit den Leuten, die da hinten dran stehen. Man muss mit den Softwareentwicklern reden, was brauchen die überhaupt? Was wünschen die sich? Was erwarten die sich von soner API?\n\nKann man die dann so bauen, dass da auch in das in die Architektur, ja, das Web passt, dass sich quasi Sicherheit und Privatsphäre der Anwender auch bewahrt. Dann natürlich auch gucken, ist es was, was zu den Nutzern wiederum passt? Also es ist extrem abwechslungsreich. Es ist manchmal auch durchaus anstrengend, wie gesagt, weil es sich so lange halt auch zieht und sehr viel reviewed wird. Das Web funktioniert beispielsweise auch so, zumindest auf der w 3 c Seite, dass alle Entscheidungen immer Konsensentscheidungen sein müssen.\n\nDas heißt, anders wie bei uns in der Demokratie, ja, wo irgendwie 50 Prozent plus eine Stimme genügt. Konsens heißt, wir arbeiten so lange, bis keiner mehr schreit. Und das kann ebenfalls wieder lange dauern und dann werden ganz lange Argumente ausgetauscht. Es dreht sich auch oftmals im Kreis, aber am Ende hast Du dafür immer eine 1 Lösung, die, wie ich finde, gut ist. Und Du hast eine Lösung, die aus so vielen Blickwinkeln betrachtet wurde und reviewed wurde, dass es sehr unwahrscheinlich ist, dass da noch irgend 'n Grundproblem besteht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber in was für 'nem Spannungsverhältnis arbeitet man denn da? Weil, also ich seh da schon sehr unterschiedliche Gruppen aufeinandertreffen, ja, und die haben ja auch alle im Prinzip die Möglichkeit, ihre Lösung außerhalb der TAG oder des b3s insgesamt irgendwie zu forcieren, ja. Also wenn ich jetzt an Browserhersteller denk, die können ja per se auch erst mal schippen, was sie wollen, ne. Ja, dann ist es vielleicht jetzt nicht so universal supportet oder so, aber Chrome Firefox, die können morgen eine API releasen, ohne ja aufrecht angewiesen zu sein, ja? Und andererseits auf Developer Seite kann man auch, wenn man mal son paar Jahre Jahrzehnte zurückdenkt und sich anschaut, was für eine Vormachtstellung so und wie irgendwie JQURE oder so was hatten, ja, wo Du im Prinzip alles, was heute so diese document Accesser Funktionen sind, ja, die da im Prinzip voran gedacht worden sind, das geht ja auch ohne Browsersupport, ja?\n\nAlso wenn Developer das wollen, dann kriegen sie's auch irgendwie hin. Wenn Browserhersteller das wollen, kriegen sie's auch irgendwie hin. Wie kriegt man die denn dann am Ende irgendwie doch alle an einen Tisch und sagt so, hey, vielleicht ist ja doch irgendwie ganz gut, wenn wir das gemeinsam machen und nicht 1 da jetzt irgendwie ausbricht, weil ihm das zu lange dauert oder zu weit weg von seinen Idealvorstellungen kommt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, zunächst mal so der Befund, der ist absolut richtig und das gilt auch nach wie vor so. Browserhersteller können zunächst mal tun und lassen, was sie wollen und das passiert auch. Wer zum Beispiel die Google I0I0I0 verfolgt hat, hat da zum Beispiel HTML in Canvas gesehen. Das ist eine coole Sache. Du kannst es quasi einfach normale Elemente kannst Du nehmen und in dein Canvas reinpacken und so die normalen Short Cards und quasi Maus Klick Boundaries und so was die die Hitboxen, die funktionieren einfach weiter.\n\nDas ist eine sehr, sehr coole Sache. Also ich persönlich als Entwickler freue mich da drüber. Hat's mir\n\nSpeaker 0: hier auch in den News? Hat sich auch alle gefreut.\n\nSpeaker 2: Top. Hervorragend. Allerdings und jetzt kommt so ein bisschen die Einschränkung, ist das, soweit ich weiß, also es ist definitiv mal eine Sache, die sehr stark von Chromium getrieben wird. Aber es würde mich auch nicht allzu weit ausm Fenster lehnen. Ich glaube, Apple ist da noch nicht so an Bord und bei Mozilla kenne ich grad nicht die, Also am besten researcht man das mal, aber hier ist Google quasi vorgeprescht und sagt, das ist eine gute Sache, wir sollten das haben.\n\nUnd dann wird es in der Tat diskutiert. Accessability Leute beispielsweise finden das gut, weil wir sonst keine Möglichkeit haben im in 'nem Canvas, ne, was halt aus Pixeldaten besteht, Beschreibungen zu haben, was da grade so dargestellt wird, sodass Leute hergehen und unsichtbare Buttons quasi über den Canvas zeichnen. Und da sind wir im Prinzip genau bei HTML in Canvas, ja? Und das würde quasi dann das das Problem adressieren und lösen. Aber es funktioniert ganz, ganz oft so, dass halt Anwender halt vorbrischt und Dinge implementiert.\n\nUnd es gibt in der Tat keine Garantie, dass das dann später auch in allen Browsern landet. Manchmal ist es der Druck von Entwicklern selber, kann aber zum Beispiel auch von Regulatorenseite kommen, dass dann sone Schnittstelle später implementiert werden muss oder werden sollte. Aber zunächst einmal ist es ja auch das das Schöne am World Wide Web, dass jeder sehr frei ist. Also ist halt eine Community, wo sehr viele Leute zusammenkommen. Es kann jeder jede Webseite betreiben, die er mag.\n\nJeder kann Server zur Verfügung stellen. Es gibt keine Zensur. Es gibt also quasi jeder kann zunächst mal im Web tun und lassen, was er will. Wo da jetzt diese diese Gruppe, die w 13 Tag quasi dann reinkommt, ist, hier dieser Community aber 'n bisschen das den Weg zu zeigen. Ja, das ist die Idee.\n\nDie Tag hat tatsächlich auch keine formale Macht. Sie kann keine API blockieren. Sie kann keine API abschalten lassen oder so. Konkretes Beispiel, hier sind zum Beispiel Third Party Cookies. Ist zum Beispiel etwas, wo die Tag der Auffassung ist, dass es sie, dass sie abgeschaltet werden sollten, dass es sie nicht geben sollte.\n\nSo, jetzt ist die Landschaft so, dass das in Firefox und in Safari auch gemacht wurde. Aber in Chrome ist es noch immer so. Da sind die per Standard quasi immer noch aktiv. Du kannst sie ausschalten. Aber hier hat sich dann zum Beispiel dazu entschieden, diesem Rat nicht zu folgen.\n\nUnd das ist zunächst mal dann auch erlaubt. Aber es wird schon auf die Empfehlungen und die, ich nenn sie mal Beschlüsse der Tag auch schon geachtet. Ja, das kann zum Beispiel für Regulator und Grundlage für eine Entscheidung sein, wenn dieses gewichtige Gremium sagt, das ist eine gute Sache oder das ist eine schlechte Sache. Bitte nicht machen. Ja, und damit dann solche Entscheidungen durchaus beeinflussen kann.\n\nWeiteres Beispiel, der Chrom Chromium. Sieht auch vor, dass ein Feature, ein positives Tag Review haben muss und wenn es das nicht hat, dann können sie immer noch schippen, aber quasi dann muss man erst mal rechtfertigen, warum. Ne, also insofern hat das Gremium da schon etwas zu sagen, aber hat formal, wie gesagt, keine Macht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wie ist denn der restliche W3 c irgendwie organisiert? Also wie viele dieser Gruppen gibt es für unterschiedliche Bereiche? Wie viele arbeiten da so aktiv insgesamt mit?\n\nSpeaker 2: Es gibt, ich bin mir über die genaue Zahl nicht sicher. Ich glaube, dass es 43 Arbeitsgruppen sind, die an unterschiedlichsten Themen arbeiten. Es gibt beispielsweise, es gibt CSS, es gibt Web Apps, Web Security, es gibt Devices and sensus, es gibt, also wirklich alles Mögliche, was halt irgendwie so lose auch mit dem World Wide Web zusammenhängt. Insofern, in diesen unterschiedlichen Workstreams wird daran gearbeitet. Dazu kommt noch eine Anzahl von sogenannten Community groups.\n\nDer Unterschied hier ist, dass Working groups die sind, die die Dokumente verabschieden können, die auf dem Track landen. Das heißt, der W3C ist ein Webstandard und nur diese, sagen wir mal, 43 Arbeitsgruppen können quasi solche Webstandards dann schlussendlich auch publizieren. Die Community groups sind dafür gedacht, dass man son bissel machen kann. Es gibt auch Hürden für Arbeitsgruppen, zum Beispiel, damit irgendwas werden kann, braucht es Unterstützung durch 2 unterschiedliche Browserengines. Und es gibt ja nur noch 3 unabhängige.\n\nDas ist einmal Chromium, dann Gecko, also Firefox und einmal Webkit, also Safari. Und hier müssen sich immer 2 zusammenfinden, damit etwas werden kann. Ist zum Beispiel schon mal eine Barriere. Und da gibt's Community Gruppen. Ich vermute mal, dass es mehr gibt als als Arbeitsgruppen.\n\nUnd die können halt diese Dokumente nicht erstellen. Aber es ist ein Ort, mit dem man, wenn sie zum Beispiel eine Chromium only API ist, trotzdem schon mal mit der Community diskutieren kann und ein Spezifikation Dokument erstellen kann, das dann später Grundlage sein kann für eine solche. Dann ist es natürlich möglich, dass man später eine Spezifikation aus der Community Group nimmt und die einfach in die passende Working Group dann überträgt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das sind ja bei jetzt über 40 Gruppen einiges an an Menschen und da hintendran wahrscheinlich auch noch 'n bisschen so Metaorganisation, das alles, ne, zu organisieren, zusammenzuhalten, zu strukturieren. Wer bezahlt das denn?\n\nSpeaker 2: Guter Punkt. SWR3 c ist eine Mitgliederorganisation. Das heißt, das wird getragen durch wieder eine gewisse Anzahl Mitgliedern. Vielleicht sollt ich einfach mal kurz die die Webseite hier nebenbei auch machen, dann können wir die Zahlen ganz genau mal raussuchen. Und die Mitglieder zahlen dann Mitgliedsgebühren entsprechend ihres Jahresumsatzes.\n\nAlso jetzt fängt Thaxon beispielsweise 'n relativ kleines Unternehmen und das hat dann das Glück, dass es eben 'n Start-up Preis gibt. Also die verstaffelte Beiträge dann quasi jetzt\n\nSpeaker 0: nicht so 5 Prozent des Jahresumsatzes oder so was Pauschales.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist laut der Analok von Kirchenzehnt. Es gibt konkrete Stufen im Prinzip.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und da kann aber jeder Mitglied werden? Das heißt, wenn ich jetzt hier mit meiner Mittel kleinen Bude aus Bad Nauheim irgendwie Interesse hab, dem B3 c beizutreten, kann ich da morgen meine Anmeldung hinschicken und dann bin ich da auch dabei. So sieht's aus. Vielleicht sollten wir uns das mal überlegen. Die Programmierer wird Mitglied beim B3 c.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wir freuen uns immer über Zahlen. Nee, aber\n\nSpeaker 1: Und ist das nicht das?\n\nSpeaker 2: In der in der Organisation. Es ist eine wichtige wichtige Sache.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, und die Arbeit, die Du machst, ist dann ehrenamtlich oder gibt's dafür irgend eine Vergütung dann?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, diese Arbeit ist tatsächlich ehrenamtlich und also in in jeder Hinsicht. Ich bin jetzt in 2 Arbeitsgruppen. Ich bin in der Web Apps Arbeitsgruppe und in der Web Machine Learning Arbeitsgruppe und der Community Group, die zugehört, bin SPAC Autor beim Manifest beispielsweise, dann spielt er auch geworden. Das ist alles ehrenamtliche Arbeiten. Genauso ist es auch die in der Tag.\n\nEs gibt wirklich gar keinen gar keine finanzielle Unterstützung von der b3 c Seite. Das bezahlt dankenswerterweise auch alles. Mein Arbeitgeber ThinkTry, ne, hier quasi sagen, das ist eine gute Sache, Standardisierungsarbeit im Web. Das möchten wir gerne unterstützen und insofern bin ich sehr dankbar, dass mein Arbeitgeber mich für die Zeit auch freistellt, die das Ganze benötigt. Wir haben 3 Calls in der Woche aus der Tag quasi, wo wir dann über die verschiedenen Vorschläge drüber schauen.\n\nUnd es gibt 2 vor Ort Treffen, die ebenfalls dann wieder über den Globus verteilt stattfinden. Und ja, dafür müssen natürlich auch Flug und Hotel gezahlt werden. Das heißt, das kommt\n\nSpeaker 0: Selbst das zahlt die Tech nicht mal aus aus quasi Mitgliedsbeiträgen. Das heißt, wenn Du ehrenamtlich mithelfen willst, ist es nicht mal nur mit deiner Zeit getan, sondern es kommen auch noch Kosten auf dich. Ich mein, in dem Fall trägt das jetzt dein Arbeitgeber, das ist cool, aber wenn ich jetzt selbst alleine Mitglied werden wollen würde und da kein Backing hab, dann kommen am Ende neben der im Aufwand auch noch Kosten auf mich zu.\n\nSpeaker 2: So sieht's aus. Es gibt da verschiedene Modelle, ja, wie wie Leute das fahren. Ich hab jetzt, wie gesagt, diese Lösung dankenswerterweise. Wir haben aber auch unabhängige Freelancer in der Tech drin beispielsweise und die lassen sich zum Beispiel sponsoren. Also wo's einfach 'n 'n Fonds gibt, wo dann wieder andere Firmen oder sogar Einzelpersonen einfach dann Geld einbezahlen, damit die Leute ihrer Arbeit nachkommen können.\n\nWeil das ist so, ne, ist ja schon 'n gewisser Teil Arbeitszeit. Und ein Flug über den Atlantik ist dann auch nicht das Günstigste, vor allem aktuell gerade nicht. Und ja, das muss man eben dann können. Und manche, die schalten sich dann eben auch digital zu, ne. Also nächstes Face to Face ist Vancouver und dann haben manche gesagt, das schaffe ich nicht und dann gibt's natürlich auch die Möglichkeit 1 Remote Teilnahme.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ist halt son Teilhabeding auch, ne. Also es gibt ja dann vielleicht durchaus Stimmen, die qualifiziert werden oder 'n berechtigtes Interesse irgendwie hätten, da dabei zu sein, aber wenn man sich das halt nicht leisten kann im wahrsten Sinne des Wortes, ne, dann wird's wahrscheinlich auch schwierig für den ein oder anderen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, dann ist man natürlich trotzdem nicht draußen, ja. Also auch das biete ich immer explizit und sehr gerne an. Weebentwickler jeder Art, ja, die Anfragen haben, die dürfen gerne an mich, gerne einfach eine E-Mail schreiben und ich nehme sie gerne mit oder bringen sie dann zur passenden Gruppe, wo es in deren Zuständigkeitsbereich es dann eben fällt. Genau, weil wir das wissen, dass es halt nicht einfach Ist, an diese an die richtigen Leute zu kommen. Als normaler Entwickler kannst Du halt eben nicht in der Regel beim, ich sag jetzt mal beim Edge Team anrufen.\n\nAber wir stellen diese diese Kommunikationsinfrastruktur gern zur Verfügung. Die Brücke quasi schlagen wir gerne. Mhm. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt sind wir schon direkt so in die Arbeit reingesprungen, als wir über deinen Weg dahin gesprochen haben. Ich weiß noch, Christian, als wir das 1. Mal über das Thema gesprochen haben, hab ich son bisschen im Scherz gesagt, wenn ich mir versuche vorzustellen, eine Gruppe von Menschen, die so über die Zukunft des Internets bestimmen, dann denke ich nicht in allererster Linie an den Christian aus Karlsruhe. So, sondern ich denk an irgendwie große Firmen wie, weiß ich nicht, ne, Google hat da irgendwie Interesse, vielleicht auch Cloudflare und Ackermai, die halt irgendwie viel Infrastruktur betreiben oder Leute, die halt irgendwie Security Stakes dadrin haben so. Und das das würde ich gerne mal noch beleuchten, ja.\n\nDu hast da so zwar nur gesagt, na ja, was dich da halt irgendwie so sehr interessiert und dann sind da so proaktiv auf die Leute zugekommen, aber ich find das 'n superinteressanten Aspekt davon, ja, dass dass es da eben offensichtlich nicht son hartes Gatekeeping gibt, sondern vielmehr es halt darum geht, okay, wenn da jemand wirklich Interesse dran hat, dann gibt es da ja offensichtlich einen Weg. So und die Hürde ist, ohne das kleinreden zu wollen, ja, aber offensichtlich nicht so astronomisch hoch, wie man sich das vorstellt, sondern eher geprägt durch ehrliche Partizipation und ehrliches Interesse daran.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, so würde ich das auch sagen. Für mich war das auch überraschend. Wie gesagt, ich kannte die die Gruppe vorher, ich wusste, was sie machen. Ich hab auch manchmal mitgefiebert auf manches Design Review, was die Tag dann bearbeitet hat. Und da haben wir uns das interessiert durchgelesen, ne.\n\nGucken, was schreiben die denn so. Und ja, ich weiß auch genau, wie's war. Es war September 20 24, wir sind grad vom Einkaufen zurückgefahren. Ich war im im Auto, bin in Karlsruhe Südtangente gefahren, macht eine E-Mail-App auf und dann war da eine E-Mail gewesen von einem der Vorsitzenden der Tag damals. Hat gemeint, wir suchen grad Kandidaten.\n\nUnd als wir rumgefragt haben, ist dein Name quasi auf die Liste gekommen. Wie sieht's aus? Hättest Du Interesse? Dann hab ich, ne, denkst Du so, wie kommen die bitte schön auf auf mich? Also, weil ich stimme zu.\n\nDort sitzen Leute von Google und von von Apple und so weiter. Das passt jetzt hier Christian Liebe von Thinktcture aus Karlsruhe, nicht so direkt rein in die in die Reihe. Und dann war kurz darauf war wieder son Jahresmeeting vom B3C gewesen. Es war in LA dieses Mal. Und ja, dann bin ich da hingeflogen, hab mich mit den Vorsitzenden unterhalten und dann sind wir gemeinsam quasi zum Fluss gekommen, dass es tatsächlich passen könnte.\n\nAlso ich wurd gefragt, was meine Vision für das Web ist, ja, was ich denn glaube, in welche Richtung es sich entwickeln sollte. Da meine Antwort drauf gegeben. Im Prinzip hatte das auch mit Project Fugu zu tun, über das wir ja bereits gesprochen haben. Also ich glaube halt, damit das Web Bestand hat, muss es mithalten mit der mit dem Feature Umfang von den sonstigen Plattformen, die es die es gibt. Wenn wir stehen bleiben und es quasi nichts mehr dazu bauen, kommt halt irgendeine andere Plattform, die macht's besser und dann ist das Web weg mit all seinen positiven Eigenschaften, die es hat.\n\nUnd deswegen ist es wert, sich dafür einzusetzen, dass das halt eben geschieht. Und ja, man muss sich 1 Wahl stellen. Und dann habe ich das gemacht im Dezember 2024, wurde dann gewählt, hab da Unterlagen zusammengestellt. Ist im Prinzip wie in soner Art Wahlkampf. Man muss so einen Text zusammenschreiben.\n\nEs gibt verschiedene Fragen, die dann eingerichtet werden. Ich habe ein Video produziert und dann wurde gewählt. 4 Plätze waren, glaube ich, offen oder oder waren es 3? Ich weiß nicht mehr. Und dann hat es nicht funktioniert im ersten Durchlauf.\n\nDann haben sie allerdings dankenswerterweise auch gerade in dem diesem Jahr ein Associate Programm eingeführt. Also wo man da schon mal son bisschen reinschnuppern kann und schon sogar bei den Design Reviews mitmachen darf, die sogar schon mitschreiben darf. Aber formal hat man kein Stimmrecht und man darf nicht zu den Face to Face Meetings kommen. Und dann habe ich das natürlich gemacht. Ich habe das das gerne angenommen.\n\nIch war die 1. Tag Associate, den es gab, hab ein Jahr die ganz reguläre Arbeit schon gemacht. Das fand ich auch sehr cool. Die haben mich im Prinzip auch wirklich machen lassen. Ich habe viele Design Reviews durchgeführt, auch schon durchaus einige der kritischeren und die sind dann nicht unter meinem Namen erschienen quasi, aber wurden dann von den formalen Tech Mitgliedern veröffentlicht.\n\nJa, und dann war das Jahr drauf wieder eine Wahl, hab ich wieder beworben und bis jeder. Diesmal hat's funktioniert. Und jetzt bin ich ganz ordentliches gewähltes, reguläres Mitglied der Tag. Was auch immer wieder zeigen soll, ist, wenn man es will und wenn man's natürlich auch ausfüllen kann, das gehört ja auch dazu, dann gibt's einen Weg, auch für den kleinen Softwareentwickler aus Karlsruhe.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und auch wenn der Softwareentwickler aus Karlsruhe vielleicht potenziell kleiner ist, es sind ja in der Tech erst mal alle Mitglieder gleichberechtigt. Ich war also jedes Mitglied 1 Stimme, egal wo Du irgendwie herkommst. Wird das auch so gelebt und wahrgenommen und ausgefüllt oder wie ist das, wenn dann, weiß ich nicht, ein 1 Chrome Mensch irgend Ich kenn die Leute nicht, ne, will da niemandem zu nahe treten. Aber wenn der jetzt ein Chrome Mensch steht und sagt so, hey, ich vertrete hier, ich weiß nicht, was Chrome fürn Share hat, mittlerweile bestimmt 80 Prozent plus irgendwie so, ne, das das Internets. Ich ich hab hier irgendwie ein Gewicht und dann kommt der Christian aus Karlsruhe und sagt so, ja, aber ich hab auch Ideen.\n\nSo, ja, und dann sagt der Chrome, ja, ist mir doch egal. So, also Verstehst Du, was ich mein? Ich will da niemandem was Böses erstellen, aber ich kann mir schon vorstellen, dass allein, wo die Leute halt herkommen und mit was für 'nem Auftrag sie da quasi drin sind, das vielleicht schon einfach eine andere Wahrnehmung und Gewichtung irgendwie hat.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ich verstehe, was Du meinst. Tatsächlich ist fast son bisschen wie in 'nem politischen Gremium, sage ich mal. Sobald Du gewählt bist, muss quasi deine Unternehmenszugehörigkeit in diesem Fall muss an der Tür liegen bleiben. Das heißt, wenn es wenn es ums Web geht, dann kommen die Leute immer noch aus 'nem gewissen Hintergrund. Das das ist und den streifst Du nicht ab.\n\nAber Du sollst explizit nicht das als verlängerten Arm deines deines Unternehmens begreifen und soweit ich das einschätzen kann, passiert das.\n\nSpeaker 0: Auch Das heißt auch die Leute von ne, Google, Intel, Apple, keine Ahnung, die da drin sitzen, die sind auch genauso gewählt und haben nicht Also es hat nicht Google da drin einen Sitz und den besetzen sie einfach, wie sie wollen, sondern die sind halt auch in Anführungszeichen zufällig da drin, also die werden wahrscheinlich genug Ressourcen und Zeit da reinstecken, das sicherzustellen, dass sie da irgendwie immer mit drinsitzen. Aber am Ende sind sie genauso da reingekommen wie alle anderen auch und es könnte rein theoretisch passieren, dass in der nächsten Besetzung, Wahlperiode, wie auch immer, ja, Dennis, Du kannst auch mit dabei sein, aber ich wollte sagen, so jemand wie Apple oder Google halt nicht mehr mit am Tisch sitzt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Natürlich ist es so, ja, wenn gewählt werden muss und Du hast da einen Stimmzettel und da steht dann, sag ich mal, Google oder Apple hinten dran, dann\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Weißt Du, wen würdest Du angucken? Ja, so, weil auch hier wer kennt global gesehen quasi Think Tactre? Wir sind Größenordnung 20 Leute. Niemand. Insofern also global gesehen niemand, ja.\n\nObwohl mir das\n\nSpeaker 0: fast\n\nSpeaker 1: 'n bisschen, ist mir fast 'n bisschen zu viel auf dieses, also vor allen Dingen auf diesem Skate. Ich verstehe so grundsätzlich, wie ich Herkommen. Und dann denk ich aber wiederum, es ist ja jetzt nicht so, dass sobald Du ein Google Mitarbeiter wirst, Du irgendwie sonen sone Spritze bekommst und irgendwie auf Drogen bist und auf einmal\n\nSpeaker 0: Also warst Du mal aufm Google Campus, die Leute das schon Nein, nein.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ne, irgendwie anders auf einmal anders denken können oder so was. Also ich, ne, ist jetzt überhaupt gar kein Problem.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also Nein, natürlich nicht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Es gilt von einem anderen, dass dass Christian da gleiche oder bessere Ideen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich weiß es gerade, aber die Leute haben ja 'n ganz anderen Interessenskonflikt auch. Weißt Du, ich mein, wenn Du einfach für Google arbeitest und die dein Lohn und Brot irgendwie bezahlen, dann ist ja vielleicht nicht von der Hand zu weisen, dass Du vielleicht 'n Interesse daran hast, dass das Web so weiter funktioniert, dass es\n\nSpeaker 1: für Google irgendwie funktioniert. Ja, weiß ich nicht. Oder einmal, Du findest das Web auch cool, aber das ist halt Google, hast dich da auskristallisiert als jemand, der intrinsisch motiviert ist und fertig.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ich ich muss halt sagen, ne, wie gesagt, wenn man wählt und ich hab ja früher dann auch schon die Stimmen dafür abgegeben, ich bin quasi der Repräsentant von Thinktxure im B3C, nennt sich dann visualy Committee und die wiederum geben die Stimmen ab für diese Tagwahl beispielsweise und ich kenn das ja von mir selber. Wen würde man denn ankreuzen auf so einem Stimmzettel? Natürlich wählt man nach Bekanntheit, also vielleicht nicht mal die Person, weil die muss ja auch irgendwann mal kennengelernt haben und dann im Zweifel halt eher wirklich nach dem dem Firmennamen, der dann da hinten dran steht. Genau, aber ansonsten stimmt's. Auch die müssen quasi reingewählt werden.\n\nAktuell haben wir beispielsweise keinen Microsoft Vertreter drin. Es ist auch kein Mozilla Vertreter drin beispielsweise. Also ist auch nicht so, dass das sein muss, dass da die großen Vendoren vertreten sind. Genau, Mozilla beispielsweise, die haben sich jetzt auch nicht beworben aktuell einen weiteren Sitz. Da ist grad der Vertreter jetzt im Februar dann quasi raus und ja, also auch auch das gibt's.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und ich will das gar nicht so negativ konnotiert sind, ne. Also ich finde das ja, kann man ja auch durchaus positiv sehen zu sagen, na ja, wenn da jemand von irgendwie Google auf der Liste steht, dann wähle ich den, weil wir haben ja alle irgendwie auch 'n Interesse, dass jemand von Google, jemand von Apple, jemand von Microsoft da mit am Tisch sitzt. Also, ne, geht ja gar nicht darum, dass die immer nur da irgendwie Schlechtes machen sollen oder so, sondern am Ende hängt ja einfach auch viel an deren Mitwirken so. Und von daher ist es ja gut, dass die mit dabei sind. Ich will das, ne, nicht, dass die alle nur mit ihrer Corporate Brille da kommen, sondern Du brauchst die Leute ja auch einfach.\n\nDeswegen, also ehrlicherweise, als Du das grade gesagt hast, meine 1. Reaktion war es ja voll schade, dass da niemand von Mozilla irgendwie grade dabei ist, so.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, aber da gab's tatsächlich keinen Kandidaten. Das ist dann vielleicht grad, also entweder haben sie dann grad niemanden oder es ist ihnen vielleicht grad nicht wichtig genug, ja auch die\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, die haben auch grad son paar Funding Probleme, bei der Mozilla Foundation muss man Vielleicht spielt das dann auch mit rein.\n\nSpeaker 2: Insofern, es gibt ja auch andere Wege, wie Browserhersteller ihre Meinungen dann kundtun können. Gibt diese Standardpositions beispielsweise und das ist dann auch eine Möglichkeit, wie Mozilla sagen kann, das finden wir gut und das finden wir nicht gut. Und das ist dann vielleicht sogar die ehrlichere Art und Weise, weil das halt eben dann die Standardsposition des Browsers ist und die wiederum sogar explizit nicht in der in der Tag vertreten werden. Ich wollte noch etwas dazu sagen. Ach so, ja.\n\nAnsonsten habe ich intern keine Angst mit den Google oder mit den Apple Leuten oder mit wem auch immer denen zu widersprechen. Das tue ich durchaus und das ist in Ordnung und das ist sogar ein Asset. Tatsächlich bin ich jetzt bei größeren Design Reviews, die schon gab, bin ich tatsächlich auch einfach dazugekommen, wenn es so härtere Konfliktlinien gab. Und da hilft es, wenn man quasi nicht affiliate ist mit mit einem der großen Vendoren und son bisschen den Schiedsrichter spielen kann. Das hab ich im Prinzip auch schon gemacht.\n\nInsofern hilft mir das sogar eher.\n\nSpeaker 0: Du hast, Dennis Du auch\n\nSpeaker 1: weiter dazu? Ja, Du hast anfangs gesagt, eine Sache, dass es langsam ist. Jetzt denk ich so, okay, es sind eigentlich nur in Anführungsstrichen 12 Leute und\n\nSpeaker 0: ihr trefft euch, hast Du dreimal gesagt,\n\nSpeaker 1: die Woche irgendwie in Meetings. Es ist erstens nicht so wahnsinnig viele Leute und zweitens relativ häufig irgendwie, dass ihr euch trefft. Wieso ist dann trotzdem noch langsam?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, weil die Standardarbeit ja quasi nicht von uns gemacht wird. Also wir sind ein Reviewgremium, das heißt zu uns, also es gibt 2 Kernaufgaben von Attac. Das eine ist sämtliche neuen Web Schnittstellen, die kommen oder Web Features, neue CSS Eigenschaften beispielsweise zu reviewen. Und zum Zweiten gibt's son Dokument, son Architektur Dokument für das Web, wo das quasi dokumentiert ist, wie sollte man APIs aufbauen? Das sind so die 2 Hauptaufgaben.\n\nUnd die kümmern wir uns. Das heißt, wir schauen uns APIs an, geben dann Feedback dazu. Aber die tatsächliche Standardisierungsarbeit, die geschieht in 1 der, ich hab's übrigens nachgeschaut, 47 Working groups innerhalb des W3C und machen wir die Schleife gerade noch fertig. Community Gruppen sind's einhundertfünfundsiebzig, also die, wo man's bisschen machen kann und Mitglieder sind aktuell 327. So, haben wir die Zahlen auch richtig stimmt.\n\nEs ist im Prinzip. Es sind wenige, die in der Standardisierung tätig sind und es ist eigentlich schade. Es gibt es muss noch einen kurzen Seitenpfad aufmachen. In unserem Architekturdokument, das ich gerade erwähnt habe, gibt's eine 1 klare Priorisierung Abfolge. Also wenn wir Standardisierungen machen, für wen machen wir es zuerst?\n\nUnd die Reihenfolge ist zuerst für den Nutzer, dann für Webentwickler, dann für Browser Hersteller, dann für Spezifikationsautoren und dann für die akademische Schönheit quasi. Das ist die Priorisierung Abfolge und Nutzer und Webentwickler stehen ganz am Anfang, noch bevor dieventur ankommt, noch bevor das Backautor selber kommt. Und deswegen ist es wichtig und explizit gewünscht, dass Leute mit uns interagieren, dass wir ihre Stimme hören und das halt eben dann auch entsprechend einarbeiten können, ja, in die Standardisierungsarbeit.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und wenn Du sagst, lasst es halt 'n bisschen langsam und das dreht halt son paar Schleifen und dann kommt das vielleicht wieder zu euch an 'nem zweiten, dritten, vierten Beruf, über was für 'n Zeithorizont reden wir denn denn da? Also was sind denn so die Standards, die ihr so zuletzt abgesegnet habt, final, ja, die wir jetzt vielleicht auch schon kennen, weil sie schon öffentlich sind und und und und fertig so und was sind so die Themen, an denen ihr jetzt grade arbeitet und wann glaubst Du, seid ihr damit fertig oder seid ihr die Autoren damit fertig?\n\nSpeaker 2: Gibt da eine relativ große Spannbreite, so manche Features, die sind halt klein. Ja, das ist halt irgend eine, was weiß ich, CSS Verbesserung, die die cool ist und die man haben will, die winkt man durch. Ja, und so was geht wahrscheinlich innerhalb von 'nem Jahr so über die die Bühne. Also so Endspiel. 3 Features.\n\nJa und? Schnell. Okay. Und dann kann das nach oben ist dann im Prinzip keine Grenzenhaufen. 5 Jahre ist, glaube ich, ein guter, ungefährer Zeitraum.\n\nJetzt kann man zum Beispiel gerade die die prompt API nehmen. Das ist ein Beispiel, wo man sich auch wirklich, wo viel diskutiert werden muss. Die der Zugriff erlaubt auf ein Language Model. Was ist eine Language Model API und aktuell liegt es quasi auf deinem eigenen Browser Home. Und jetzt gibt's dazu alle möglichen Diskussionspunkte.\n\nEs wird aktuell implementiert von Chrome, das geshept jetzt auch und Edge beispielsweise. Die haben aber unterschiedliche Modelle hinten dran. Das heißt, es kann Interoperabilitätsprobleme geben. Du kannst aber nicht gucken, was für ein Modell ist es denn? Also von der API Stelle her.\n\nDann ist die Apple Rückmeldung finden wir nicht gut. Zum Beispiel gerade wegen der Interoperabilitätssachen. Also kann es sein, dass der dass die Schnittstelle krummium only bleibt. Es kann sein, dass der Ansatz cool ist, sich ausbreitet oder man sagt, das ist eine Sackgasse, machen wir lieber ganz anders. Es gibt zum Beispiel auch WebNN, ist eine andere Schnittstelle, wo man Modelle lokal im Browser betreiben kann.\n\nMuss das Modell selber mitbringen. Hat den Vorteil, Du weißt genau, mit welchem Modell Du redest, hat den Nachteil, Du musst es erst runterladen. Und so hat man quasi bis am Ende erst ein magisches Dreieck vor dir und muss gucken, ja, was ist denn jetzt der richtige Ansatz? Sind's alle? Ist es nur 1 davon?\n\nGibt manchmal gibt's auch keine Lösung, weil wir ja keine Glaskugel haben. Manchmal weiß es erst aus der Rückschau. Weiteres Beispiel Es gab mal den Gedanken, ob man JQUERY nicht einfach mit dem Browser shippt, weil das jede Website nutzt. Ja, in der Rückschau sehr gut, dass wir es nicht gemacht haben. Ja, das ist jetzt immer das Problem.\n\nWenn einmal was im Web ist, Teil der Plattform ist, dann ist es das in aller Regel. Es gibt Ausnahmen für immer. Ja, die Webseite von 94 funktioniert heute noch. Die sieht heute noch genauso aus wie vor über 30 Jahren. Und das ist ja immer der Anspruch.\n\nSobald es einmal Teil der Plattform ist, ist es das für den Rest der Zeit und insofern, ja, muss man halt vorsichtig sein. Und deswegen darf auch son Experimentierzyklus länger dauern.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und was sind denn, also Du hast jetzt diese AI Themen schon so angesprochen, die sind ja sehr neu. So, also da da, ne, das ist ja keine Iteration aufm bestehendes Browser Feature oder\n\nSpeaker 2: Richtig, ja. Neu und Fehlt da so das\n\nSpeaker 0: das Analog son bisschen dazu vielleicht. Und was sind denn so so Feature Iterationen, an denen ihr grade dransitzt? Also wo's jetzt nicht darum geht, ne, eine komplett neue Cafability zu schauen, sondern eher so, wir arbeiten grade an, ne, sowas wie halt HTML in Canvas oder so. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also Webspeech fällt mir jetzt grade ein, aber ich kann auch gleich gern mal eine Liste aufmachen. Webspeech ist gibt's ja schon und kann man oder auch hier ist die gleiche Sache. Aktuell funktioniert das so. Das ist für die Spracherkennung, dass Du quasi den Sprach Feed gegen die Cloud schickst. Und dann wird das quasi transkribiert und kommt quasi als Ergebnis zurück.\n\nUnd die Idee ist, wir würden das gerne lokal machen. Also ist hier eine Iteration. Die Webspeech API ist keine Ahnung wie alt, sehr alt und bekommt jetzt retro fitted quasi diese Möglichkeit zur lokalen Verarbeitung mit dazu. Das wär jetzt 'n Beispiel für eine immer noch Zusammenhang, aber für quasi eine rückwirkende Anpassung von einem von so 1 API. Ich mache kaum unsere Review Liste auf WebMC fällt mir direkt noch ein.\n\nDas wird auch gerade diskutiert, dass zum Beispiel auch Chromium dafür. Auch bei uns hart\n\nSpeaker 0: das Projekt in der Programmierbar. Gibt da jemanden, der glaubt da nicht dran?\n\nSpeaker 2: Okay, ja, wunderbar. Und das ist weiter willkommen. Willkommen in meiner Welt. Denn es muss im Prinzip dir beide Seiten anhören und muss dann am Ende, das ist nämlich immer so das Ziel der Tag. Im Idealfall müssen wir auf eine auf ein Ergebnis kommen, auf eine Resolution Finden wir das gut?\n\nHeißt es dann, haben wir da Bedenken? Oder sind wir dagegen? So, und da müssen wir uns auf all diese verschiedenen Seiten hören. Ich kenne zum Beispiel auch die die Gegenseite von von WebMCP. Das sind auch Argumente, dabei die stimmen und dann müssen wir auf ein Ergebnis kommen.\n\nWebMCP beispielsweise werde ich reviewen und dann muss am Ende wird ein Wörtchen dastehen. Ja, und was das ist, wir haben jetzt noch nicht angefangen, aber das wird dann wird dann kommen und das wird spannend. Quasi sich all die Argumente anzuhören und dann zu überlegen, okay, ist es fürs Web jetzt in Summe gut, in Summe schlecht, überwiegen die Vorteile, den die Nachteile und so weiter. Das ist zum Beispiel ein so ein Fall.\n\nSpeaker 0: Da sollten wir, wenn das fertig ist, noch mal eine Folge zu machen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, auf jeden Fall. Es ist also auf der anderen Seite aber auch mega der Hype, ja, kann ich kann ich auch sagen. Hat hat eine Riesentraktion, löst auch reale Probleme, die es halt gibt. Ja, die aktuellen Agenic Browser sind halt vor allem sehr langsam, also halt den Aufbau der Seite erst verstehen müssen und Screenshot machen. Und da gibt halt Web MCP als programmatischer Weg die Tools, die die Seite bietet mit 'ner Schema Definition von außen aufrufen zu können, mega, den Shortcut, ne?\n\nDas würde die Erfahrung von argentischem Brosing erheblich verbessern.\n\nSpeaker 1: Jetzt hast Du\n\nSpeaker 0: ja vorhin gesagt Bitte. Das das Entscheidende oder das Allererste auf eurer Prioritätenliste ist so für die Nutzer und Nutzerinnen, ja. Und wenn wenn wir hier so diskutieren, dann diskutieren wir schon so aus sonem sehr technischen Level und was was wir davon halten als Entwickler. Wir sind ja nur auf Nummer 2 auf eurer Liste so. Ja.\n\nWie findet ihr denn in soner Diskussion die die Nutzerinnenperspektive, weil die meisten oder wahrscheinlich alle von euch sind ja eher, kommen ja eher aus der technischen Ecke, so, ja. Und wie macht ihr da, gibt's da Umfragen? Gibt's da so Panels oder versucht ihr euch einfach da selber so hineinzuversetzen? Wie kommt quasi der der Blickwinkel der Endnutzerin, der für euch ja offensichtlich ganz oben steht, wie kommt der in diese Diskussion rein?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ich fang mal mit dem schwächeren Argument an, mit dem schwächeren Punkt, nämlich dass wir alle ja zugleich auch Nutzer sind, also Du kannst schon mal bei dir selber anfangen. Also was fände ich denn gut? Fehlt mir eine API im Web? Was ist mein Enduser Benefit, den ich ja davon bekomme? Das ist jetzt, wie gesagt, die der schwache 1.\n\nPunkt. Der Stärkere 2. Ist, dass es oftmals ja User Research gibt als Teil des Standardisierungsprozesses, wo es dann Umfragen gibt, also wo tatsächlich das User Research auch durchgeführt wird, halt eben herauszufinden, ist das jetzt was, was gebraucht wird? Genau. Das ist dann vielleicht eher das, was dann hier auch dem näher kommt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, also ich wollte dir da gar nicht zu nahe gehen oder nicht sagen, dass der das nicht kann, aber ich stell mir das halt schon teilweise auch schwierig vor, weil man selbst ist ja immer son bisschen biased dann so, ne. Und man ist ja als Selbst, wenn Du hast vollkommen recht, wir sind alle auch Nutzer und Nutzerinnen, aber ich würde nicht sagen, dass wir repräsentativ sind für die Art und Weise, wie der Großteil der Menschen da draußen das Web halt benutzt und versteht. Und das ist ja dann immer so dieser Disconnect, den man irgendwie überbrücken muss.\n\nSpeaker 2: Richtig. Und das stimmt. Also diese Bios existieren ja in in jederlei Hinsicht. Ich bin jetzt ja auch Entwickler und kein Wendler, ja, das sind die wiederum, die werden dort haben andere Sicht wieder was Entwickler sind, ja und was die denn brauchen und aber das ist exakt die Idee, ja, deswegen, Du hast am Anfang angesprochen, deswegen gehe ich auch auf Konferenzen weltweit, weil das ja das World Wide Web ist und ich deswegen auch hören möchte, was Entwicklerinnen und Entwickler und Nutzerinnen Nutzer weltweit dann zu sagen haben und was die über das Web denken. Und jo, damit versuchen wir auch son bissel, 'n Feedbackkanal zu bekommen.\n\nWeitere weiteres Beispiel vielleicht noch für eine kontroversere API ist die Digital Credentials API. Kommt, gibt's in USA schon. In der EU wird grade, dass dass die ALDI Wallets diskutiert, also die Möglichkeit, seinen Personalausweis in die Wallet des Gerätes hochzuladen, dass Du dann digitalen ja, Perso hast. Ist eine coole Sache und die Digital Credentials API gibt dann quasi Webseiten Zugriff auf besagten Personalausweis in der Wallet. Das ist dann wieder eine mindestens diskutierwürdige Sache, weil das in alle möglichen Richtungen missbräuchlich verwendet werden kann.\n\nDenn alles, was wir im Web an Fähigkeiten anbieten, alles, was wir Entwicklern zur Verfügung stellen, kann halt auch wieder genutzt werden von Leuten, die es nicht so gut meinen. Und wenn das jetzt sehr einfach wird, auf Identitätsdaten zuzugreifen, dann kann man sich schon denken, was passieren wird. Ja, das so eine Werbeanzeige oder Fake Download Button und dann heißt, wenn Du diese App runterladen willst, dann gib mir doch bitte mal deinen Namen und deine Anschrift beispielsweise.\n\nSpeaker 0: Kann man dann\n\nSpeaker 2: auch nutzen, Altersprüfung im Web umzusetzen, dass quasi die Seite selber prüft. Sag mal dein Ausweis, ja, ist auch schon Media Verbot, wird beispielsweise diskutiert. Auch gerade ließe sich damit umsetzen. Ist es gut? Ist es schlecht?\n\nIst das Zensur? Ist es valide? Ist es legitim? Teilweise ist ist die Diskussion auch größer als halt nur das Web. Teilweise müssen die Diskussionen halt Gesellschaften und Länder unter sich führen.\n\nAber das wär noch 'n weiteres Beispiel, was auch eine gesellschaftliche Relevanz hat.\n\nSpeaker 0: Super, superspannend. Wenn Du, losgelöst von dem, woran ihr jetzt grade konkret arbeitet, so über das w 3 c und tt ag nachdenkst, was sind so ein, 2 Sachen, von denen Du denkst, die funktionieren jetzt schon sehr gut strukturell, organisatorisch? Und was sind so vielleicht ein, 2 Sachen, wo Du sagst so, boah, wenn ich hier einen Wunsch frei hätte, dann würde ich das grundlegend ändern, diese Regel einführen, diese Regel abschaffen, keine Ahnung.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich glaub, da habe ich keine direkte Antwort tatsächlich. Ich bin ja quasi formal erst seit Februar dabei mit dem Associate, quasi so anderthalb Jahre Und ich lerne halt noch und ich schaue mir das noch an. Aktuell habe ich keinen wirklichen Änderungsvorschlag, wie es besser machen könnte, ohne die Grundzüge des Web infrage zu stellen im Prinzip. Wie gesagt, so was wie Konsensfindung ist langsam und ist anstrengend. Manchmal brauchst Du 5 Meetings, zum Ergebnis zu kommen, was am Anfang eigentlich schon absehbar war.\n\nJa, und mit allem, was man kennt, wo dann quasi alles schon gesagt wurde und nur noch nicht von jedem. Also so was, das kommt dann durchaus auch vor. Das macht's langsam und anstrengend. Will ich deswegen einstellen wollen. Ich glaube nicht, es geht dann sogar auf andere Bereiche des Lebens über.\n\nAlso wenn ich dann privat irgendwas organisiere, beispielsweise ist mir Konsens viel wichtiger, als dass da auf einmal so das ja, aber 5 von 9 waren dafür. Also das ist auch das ist sone Kultursachen. Und klar, ich mein auch noch mal die Kulturfrage. Es ist ein World Wide Web, Du hast alle möglichen Kulturen da drin. Und jo, ich glaube insofern ist das Vorgehen, soweit ich sehe, richtig oder ich hätte keinen konkreten\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich mein, das ist ja 'n positiver Indikator, ne. Also ich mein, wenn's jetzt was wirklich Schlimmes wär, was dir\n\nSpeaker 2: schon in den ersten paar Monaten aufgefallen wäre, dann wär's ja nur 'n umso stärkerer Indikator\n\nSpeaker 0: sozusagen, ja, wenn wir jetzt sagen, ja nur 'n umso stärkerer Indikator sozusagen, ja. Wenn man jetzt sagt, es gibt erst mal per se nix, ist das ja auch kein kein schlechtes Zeichen. So, wir haben gar nicht darüber gesprochen, weil Du grad gesagt hast, Du bist ja erst seit 'n paar Monaten dabei. Für wie lange wird man da reingewählt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Es sind 2 Jahre und widerwahl im Prinzip unbegrenzt möglich. Das ist auch die Komposition ganz schön. Wir haben Leute, die beides auch schon viele, viele, viele Jahre sind und dann manche sind jetzt eben ganz frisch mit dabei und auch das ist eine coole Sache. Denn auch hier Software Architekt bin ich auch schon lang gewesen von Beruf her. Es ist aber auch noch mal was anderes, wie dann Browserarchitektur ist, die ich nicht kenne, weil ich halt quasi kein Browserentwickler bin.\n\nUnd ja, das sind halt Dinge, die man sich dann halt erst drauf schaffen muss mit der Zeit und wo man den Input braucht von Browser Herstellern. Denn darf man auch nicht vergessen bei allem, auch wenn dann quasi die Hersteller hinter uns dann noch mal stehen, hinter den Entwicklerinnen und Entwicklern, am Ende zahlen die das, zahlen die die Browserentwicklung und die ist sehr, sehr, sehr teuer. Und wir nutzen die Produkte alle for free und darf man auch nicht vergessen quasi in der in dem Zusammenspiel. Hab mal die Zeit, wo wir bezahlt haben für die Browser noch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich würd überhaupt nicht bezahlen auch heute noch dafür, aber das ist, glaub ich,\n\nSpeaker 2: eine andere Diskussion. Auf eine andere Art, genau. Ja. Ja. Richtig.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also ich glaub, Apple nagt nicht am Hungertuch, nur weil sie Safari bezahlen müssen. So. Aber ja, also Du hast natürlich vollkommen recht, das ist 'n sehr anderes Modell, so. Und sie sind jetzt nicht unbedingt hart oder sie müssten nicht hart darauf incentivet sein, da so viel Zeit und Energie reinzustecken, wie sie grade machen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, und wir haben die die Alternative gesehen, ja, weil sich an die IE 6 Seiten erinnert, ja, oder son bisschen kurz davor, diese Seite ist optimiert für, ja. Wir wollen, glaube ich, nicht zurück in eine Welt, wo sich die, wenn Du dann nicht an einem Tisch sitzen, sitzt Aber weggucken.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber Du fühlst Silver da teilweise schon wieder. Also es ist mir jetzt schon 'n paarmal in den letzten Monaten begegnet, dass ich eine Seite aufmacht. Die Seite, die wir jetzt gerade aufhaben, diesen Podcast aufzuzeichnen, hier, Riverside, wenn Du die 'n Safari aufmachst oder 'n Firefox, dann sagt er dir auch erst mal, boah, willst Du nicht Chrome runterladen? Die funktionier viel besser mit Chrome, so, ja? Es ist nicht ganz so schlimm wie früher, dass dann alles blockiert und kaputtgeht oder so, aber es ist schon son Nudge, wo ich mir denk, wir waren schon mal weiter.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das stimmt, kann ich nachvollziehen. Ich glaube, dass es sich an manchen Fronten aber auch verbessert. Also das WebGPU beispielsweise ist es auch in in Safari gesipped. Also Möglichkeit, Low Level mit der Grafikkarte zu sprechen. Web Serial API ist jetzt nach Jahren, ich glaub, es sind 10 Jahre oder so was, ich glaub, 20 13 war der 1.\n\nCommit, ist jetzt in Firefox geshappt. Das heißt, nach gar Ahnung, was weiß ich, was noch nie vielen Jahren nach 'ner Dekade hat es diese Schnittstelle auch in Firefox quasi geschafft. Also ich höre schon, dass und auch hier ist er wieder Nutzerfeedback, Entwicklerfeedback wichtig und gut und führt auch zu einem Umdenken, sagen wir's so. Weil niemand will, ne, auch die Browsersteller wollen solche Seiten\n\nSpeaker 0: nicht sehen, die sagen, nur zu Chrome. Das ist nicht, wo wir hinwollen. Was ist dein Take, wir hatten da vor Ewigkeiten meine News Folge, glaube ich, drüber diskutiert, als es wie heißt dieser Browser von den OpenAI hat, Commitment, nee.\n\nSpeaker 2: Commitment, ja. Nee, Atlas. Atlasity hat's.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also, genau, als es die beiden ging und dieses kleine Start-up, was grade versucht, sone Browser Engine komplett neu,\n\nSpeaker 2: Servo, Ladybird.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ladybird, genau. Ja, Ladybird.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja klar, Servo ist ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie wie realistisch schätzt Du das ein? Weil wir haben da auch in dieser Folge son bisschen hin- und her diskutiert. Und wie Du sagst, ne, wir sind alle groß geworden in der Zeit, wo's tatsächlich ab und zu noch mal andere Browser gab. Also ich kann mich erinnern, als Oprah irgendwie neu war und die hatten so Tabs, das war revolutionär krass, das hatte kein anderer so, ja. Und das war mal so richtig son Grund, den Browser zu wechseln.\n\nOder als Firefox rauskam damals und so superschlank war und schneller war was, ja. Aber das waren halt auch ganz andere Zeiten. Da war halt 'n Browser noch eine viel kleinere Anwendung, ja? Also jede dieser Schnittstellen, die Du gerade aufgezählt hast, ist ja nur ein Punkt mehr auf der To do Liste, die Du quasi implementieren musst, überhaupt erst mal dahin zu kommen, wo jetzt schon alle anderen sind. Und da hast Du noch keinen Schritt mehr gemacht als die Bestandsplayer sozusagen, ja?\n\nAlso wie realistisch ist es überhaupt, dass es irgendjemand jetzt aus dem Stand schaffen kann, einen vollkommen neuen Browser, eine vollkommen neue Browser Engine et cetera überhaupt zu zu bauen? Glaub, Nettime\n\nSpeaker 2: Frage. Ich hab, Lady Bird muss ich gestehen, glaube ich, letztes Mal vor 'nem Jahr gesehen, wie da der Entwicklungsstand war. Aber ich meine, da hat man schon mal Webseiten zumindest erkennen können.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ja, die können mittlerweile nennen. So, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Okay, super. Wir haben's aber aufm Schirm. Also es ist auch bei der Tag auf dem Schirm, weil das ja was Spannendes ist. Ja, eine neue Engine, also geht uns dann dort genauso, die die dann dort hochkommt. Ja, die Frage ist legitim.\n\nKann man das überhaupt schaffen, noch mal so einen kompletten Browser von vorne hinzuzimmern? Weil das ist so, es strömen ständig neue APIs, neue Features, neue Rendering Features quasi ins ins Web dazu. Und ein Faktor, der ich hier Und das nächste Mal ist ja das, was wir aktuell sehen, sind ja alles Abspaltungen ja auch teilweise voneinander, ne. Also zum Beispiel ist ja Chrome eine Webgate Abspaltung ursprünglich mal gewesen. Und insofern hat man sich auch da Aufwand gespart.\n\nUnd Web geht ja wiederum meine von Kater, Kater Mail, was glaube ich. Und ja, kann das ändern, weil man hier mühelos im Prinzip die SPACs einfach mal hernehmen könnte und die in einen füttern lassen könnte und dann damit 'n Browser bauen kann. Habe ich allerdings noch nicht gesehen. Es wird auch im Hintergrund spekuliert, wann denn jetzt der 1. Seinen Browser mal auf Rust umzieht.\n\nAuch das wäre mit denkbar. In übersichtlicher Zeit muss man ein bisschen Tokens verbrennen, aber Bestandscode umzuziehen habe ich aber bisher noch nicht gesehen, Aber für die Zukunft. Warum nicht? Ich meine, das das Coole bei den B3C Specs ist halt gerade wenn sie, wenn es Recommendations sind und es die Implementierungserfahrung auch noch gibt. Also den Stempel gibt's in aller Regel erst dann, wenn sie auch noch in dem Browser drin geschippt ist.\n\nDann sind die SPACs so robust, dass Du wirklich hernehmen kannst und einfach runter implementieren kannst. Vielleicht auch noch ein Faktor, wie 3C Standards sind alle offen, sind alle gratis, sind alle patentfrei. Kannst das Ding hernehmen und kannst es implementieren. Und insofern gäb's da keine Hürde. Und ja, wer weiß, vielleicht macht das mal jemand.\n\nCool.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt ist ja Despec das eine. Weil hab hier grad 'n Artikel aufgemacht, der der ist mir vor 'n paar Wochen übern Weg gelaufen und da geht es darum, wie viel Custom Code zum Browser eigentlich ship, so die großen Webseiten befriedigen zu können, ne, weil die halt eben nicht spec konform unterwegs sind oder wenn man sie spec konform rendern würde, quasi nichts mehr davon funktionieren würde. Und das ist wohl so, dass es zumindest für Chrome und Safari ist das wohl relativ einsehbar, was die wohl so zur Runtime noch da reinpatchen. Und da gibt's quasi für alle dieser großen Seiten, also wenn ich mir eine Liste angucke, dass irgendwie Discord Mitarbeiter ist, Office Mitarbeiter ist, Black Mitarbeiter ist, Google selbst Mitarbeiter ist, Netflix mit dabei. So und quasi keine dieser Seiten würde funktionieren, wenn alle nur so bei the SPAC arbeiten würden.\n\nUnd das ist ja auch quasi eine 'n Erfahrungswert so, ja. Also zum einen könntet ihr da drauf gucken und sehen, okay, da da scheitert also die SPAC quasi, entweder weil sie nicht umgesetzt werden kann oder weil sie schlecht implementiert ist oder irgendwie passender Wunsch und Wirklichkeit nicht nicht ganz zusammen. Und auf der anderen Seite ist das auch genau dann so die Differenz, wo jeder, der jetzt 'n neuen Browser bauen will, quasi auch draufgucken kann und sagt, na ja, hier muss ich ja eigentlich von der SPAC abweichen, weil sonst hab ich überhaupt gar keine Chance. Weil wenn ich mich nur SPAC konform verhalte, dann funktioniert am Ende Slack bei mir nicht und alle brauchen irgendwie Slack oder so.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ich kenn die Listen bei Firefox kann man die auch schön einsehen. So, ich kenne sie aber nicht genau genug, deswegen will ich mich nicht allzu aus dem Fenster lehnen, aber manchmal liegt das auch das Problem auch auf Seiten der Websitebetreiber. Und dann ist halt einfach der Impact viel zu groß, als dass man da in Kauf nehmen will, dass halt so eine Riesenseite wie, sagen wir mal, YouTube irgendwo nicht funktioniert. Ja, aber es gibt die, es gibt die Liste. Stimmt.\n\nIst auch witzig, sich den Sourcecode anzuschauen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also teilweise manchmal wirklich banale Sachen. So, ja, wo halt irgendwie son CSS Selektor umgebogen wird, einfach damit die Seite ordentlich aussieht. Und manchmal ist es nur son Javascript alias oder so, aber es ist Ganz verrückt,\n\nSpeaker 2: aber oft ist liegt's an der Seite selber, die müsste es mixen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Aber trotzdem krass, dass ja offensichtlich irgendjemand bei Firefox und Chrome und allen so einfach nur damit beschäftigt wird, so zu schauen, okay, machen wir eine von diesen großen Seiten Genau. Oder müssen wir da was patchen? So.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Ja gut, die Motivation ist ja auch klar. Du hast am Ende der Browser ist derjenige, der am Ende zig 1000 Issues offen hat, Ja. Ne? Das heißt, das liegt auch in deren Interesse, dass man das halt vermeidet.\n\nJa.\n\nSpeaker 0: Hast Du noch eine Frage, Dennis?\n\nSpeaker 1: Nein. Nein? Oster, habt ihr einen Pick of the day?\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber jetzt haben wir, ich will's dann Es geht zu\n\nSpeaker 1: schnell, ich hab nur da schon mal vorweggebracht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ach so, steht zu langsam hier, willst Du sagen? Wir sind zu langsam. Christian, hast Du noch eine Frage, über die Du dich wunderst, dass wir sie dir nicht gestellt haben und Du denkst, ich war so gut vorbereitet, über das Thema x y zu sprechen und jetzt hat mich niemand darauf angesprochen, ich bin traurig.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, ich hab eine Ergänzung hab ich noch so im Hinterkopf, die ich vorhin sagen wollte. Wichtig ist noch die Abgrenzung, dass das Betra erzählt. Das rät jetzt immer ums World Wide Web und weiß nicht, das Internet als Ganzes. Ja, also Internet hat immer andere Standardisierungsgremien, Gremien, IETF und so. Die beiden, das bleibt trotzdem.\n\nDas ist Web, ist die Killerapplikation das Internet, aber das ist wichtig zur Begriffsklärung. Und zum zweiten will ich einfach noch mal meinen Aufruf wiederholen, den ich quasi schon zuvor genannt hatte in diesem Podcast. Also gerichtet an alle, die die das hier hören. Ja, ich bin immer interessiert daran bewegt sich das in die richtige Richtung. Fehlt was?\n\nSollte etwas nicht drin sein? Und bin froh, wenn ich da Input bekomme. Wirklich egal von woher. Und ich bring es sehr gerne zu den großen Browser Herstellern und zu den Leuten, die die Webstandards schreiben. Und ja, würde mich freuen, von euch zu hören.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wo können die Leute dich am besten erreichen, wenn sie Input haben?\n\nSpeaker 2: Am besten einfach den Namen googeln, Christian Liebe. Dann gibt's die Thinktakter Website, kann man auf meinen Namen draufklicken und dann geht direkt das E-Mail-Fensterchen auf und dann kann man mir schreiben. E-Mail ist tatsächlich wahrscheinlich der beste Weg, weil da bleibt's in der Inbox. Ansonsten bin ich aber auch auf jeder auf LinkedIn und jeder Microblogging Plattform, die es so gibt. Genau.\n\nWunderbar.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dann jetzt dein dein Wort zum Übergang.\n\nSpeaker 1: Vorher noch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, ich dachte, man kann vielleicht auch mal Danke sagen, oder? Also ich mein, es ist ja am Ende, also nicht nur, dass Du den Podcast catelst, es kommt ja später noch, das machst Du mir sicher eben abgesangen auf\n\nSpeaker 0: das Volk das heißt, ja. Aber\n\nSpeaker 1: sonst ja auch irgendwo cool, dass Du dich da so engagiert. Ich mein, das braucht ja auch die Leute, die da irgendwie die Motivation haben, sich dahinter zu klemmen und da jede Woche Energie und Zeit rein zu investieren, das Ganze zu tun. Natürlich auch Unternehmen, die es unterstützen Thinktuure, von daher auch sehr cool, dass sie das machen. Aber natürlich auch, ja, besonders an dich, dass Du das so mit vorantreibst. Einfach mal stellvertretend für alle Entwickler*innen, die es grade zugehört haben,\n\nSpeaker 0: einen Und die, die nicht zugehört haben auch.\n\nSpeaker 1: Für die kann ich ja nicht reden. Für die, die zuhören, können jetzt abschalten, wenn sie nicht der Meinung sind. Nein. Ja, cool, dass Du das machst.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, nimm lang. Pause, jetzt Übergang, Dennis.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das war's. Grüß dich, ja?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Okay. Wieso?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, unser Intro Sound ist ja, den wir hier lokal hören, ist 'n anderer als der\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ja, den anderen interessant\n\nSpeaker 2: haben wir irgendwie nicht hier hochgeladen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, deswegen. Den feier ich, den mag ich, den Pick of Pick of the day Sound.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jedes Mal, wenn ich den hör, die ersten 5 Sekunden feier ich den und dann bin ich so Bist Du ich glaub, ist 'n bisschen zu\n\nSpeaker 2: lang. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Na ja. Okay. Picks of the day. Dennis, Du hast gesagt, Du hast was, bis wir eine Stunde lang gesprochen haben. Jetzt hast Du eine Stunde 12 gehabt.\n\nHast 'n Pick?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ich nehme noch den gleichen, Du wirst ihn nicht mögen, ist mir\n\nSpeaker 0: erst Ach so.\n\nSpeaker 1: Egal. Mein Pick ist Jetzt bin ich gespannt. Youtube aufmachen und Tesla FSD Deutschland eingeben. Genau. Also eigentlich, deswegen hab ich am Anfang gefragt, wann wird die Folge released, weil ich hatte die Woche eine Probefahrt mit FSD, wo man jetzt so begleitet, mitfahren darf bei Tesla.\n\nDa sitzt Du dann Personen im im Fahrersitz und voll autonom kann man sich eine Adresse aussuchen und das Auto fährt ja dann dahin. Und ich hab es davor auch viel auf Social Media gesehen, eben wenn man einfach nach Tesla FSD Deutschland sucht. Und ich finde halt, es ist noch mal Unterschied. Ich mein, man hat vielleicht schon Videos gesehen aus Amerika und breite Streissen, keine Ahnung, was so. Wenn man das mal dann in Action sieht, wie's auf deutschen Straßen, in engen Innenstädten und so was funktioniert.\n\nVon daher, das einfach mal als kleine Watch Empfehlung, guckt euch mal 10 Minuten irgendwie Stream, ich stream 10 Minuten Video an, wie ein Tesla durch deutsche Straßen fährt und drückt die Daumen. Ich hab gestern gelesen, es ist jetzt schon das 5., aber das ist jetzt auch schon outdated, also wenn wir diese Folge aufnehmen, aber das 5. Europäische Land hat er sich schon zugelassen. Also in den letzten 48 Stunden sind noch viel Länder dazugekommen nach den Niederlanden. Also 'n bisschen Bewegung ist da grade drin.\n\nJa. Also ich muss auch sagen, ich hab als ich\n\nSpeaker 0: hab's ja nur in San Francisco mit dem Waymo gemacht und ich hab mich schon sehr sicher gefühlt, weil die Straßen entsprechend breit sind, so. Und auch wenn's mal eine Situation gab, wo er son bisschen quasi Gegenverkehr ausweichen musste oder 'n Fahrradfahrer kam oder so, wenn einfach deine Spur noch 2 Meter hergibt, dann ist es halt was anderes, als wenn Du jetzt hier, weiß ich nicht, in Bad Nauheim durchs Dorf wärst und Ja. Da halt so Normbreite hast. Seitenspiegel plus 30 Zentimeter und fertig. Ja, bin gespannt.\n\nIch glaub, die haben das ja, in Niederlanden war das zuerst, ne.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, nie. Da hab ich\n\nSpeaker 0: die ersten Videos damals gesehen und das war ja, also gefühlt sind die Straßen ja noch enger als bei uns und ganz oft auch quasi nur so einspurig und ohne son durchgezogenen Mittelstreifen und so was. Klar.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und Amsterdam immer so brutal, was Fahrräder angeht und Menschen, die rumlaufen so parallel. Ja. Aber ja. Und für dich, Christian, Du hast doch die Chance, weil die die Folge noch jetzt frühzeitig Also Du guck, ob Du noch 'n Termin findest, falls Du das noch nicht gemacht hast, da kann man registrieren für. Ja, aber Christian ist hab\n\nSpeaker 0: ich mir bestimmt auch schon mal hier so Robo Taxi in in Amerika gefahren.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ebenfalls die die Waymos. Dieses Jahr, als ich auf der Google io war, wurde es auf das Gebiet erweitert. Also Du kannst es auch quasi in der restlichen Bay fahren und bald auch auf dem Highway, also wo ich dort war, gab's es schon für Betatesterinnen und Tester.\n\nSpeaker 0: Weil wenn man bei 'nem Auto- und Betatester, ich weiß nicht, das ist also\n\nSpeaker 2: so. Ja. Der ich aber leider nicht bin, insofern konnte ich noch nicht über den den Highway fahren und was bald kommt, sind so Busse, also wo noch mehr Leute reinpassen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, da hab ich schon 'n paar von den Vegas gesehen, als wir jetzt da waren. Also ist nicht son Bus, ist da eher son großer Van vielleicht, sag ich's mal, ja, für so 6 Leute oder so. Ja. Aber Genau. Ja, war auch schon Sah ganz cool aus.\n\nOkay, Pick of the day. Christian, was hast Du am Start?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, als hätten wir uns abgesprochen, ich hab ein Buch mitgebracht. Vielleicht kennst Du das, ja, so Bücher, die man irgendwann mal kauft und viel\n\nSpeaker 0: zu lange irgendwie im im Schrank\n\nSpeaker 2: auch rumliegen, aber ich Ganz egal, Freund. Ja, mir geht's auch so. Aber ich hab jetzt für den Langstreckenflug dann dorthin auch ein Buch raus gekramt. Es nennt sich Kit Shut mied don't How we thing about for Future ist von Nick Foster und es geht Zukunft im weiten Sinne. Und es startet mit 1 Frage, nämlich mach die Augen zu und stell dir Zukunft vor.\n\nWas siehst Du? Und ich hab irgendwie so an meine persönliche Zukunft gedacht, aber gemeint war offenbar selbstfahrende Autos und Robotaxis und humanoide Roboter mit neonblauem LED Mantel. Der Autor hier ist quasi in so Zukunftsabteilungen von vielen Unternehmen unterwegs gewesen. Und ja, ist ja immer die Frage, was nimmt man sich vor als Projekt? Und ja, das ist halt wahrscheinlich nicht jetzt die fliegende Status oder so was, sondern halt irgendwas Erreichbareres.\n\nAuf das scheint das Buch hinauszugehen. Ich hab's noch nicht ganz durch. Also es geht entlang der verschiedenen Zukunfts Futuristen Typen geht's durch, nämlich Kurt, might und don't. Ich habe jetzt gerade das Kapitel Kurt abgeschlossen. Also der könnte Futurist, der meistens irgendwie schrill aussieht, irgendwelche Szenarien aufmalt, aber eigentlich keine Detailfragen dazu beantworten kann und dann vielleicht die die Kulisse dann doch auch schnell wieder zusammenbricht.\n\nBin gespannt, was die anderen Typen dann noch so in sich verbergen. Also Shirt, might und don't und vermute, was dann die These ist, nämlich dass man wahrscheinlich so ein Mix von allem mitbringen soll, wenn man über die Zukunft denkt. Und so was wie selbstfahrende Autos ist ja eigentlich eine schöne Vorstellung.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Ich war mal vor, als wir auf der via Devilop Us waren zusammen vor 2 oder 3 Jahren, war ja auch die Abschlusskeynote von sonem Futurist gehalten, der bei irgendwie einem dieser großen Techfirmen, Microsoft oder Google oder so kam der, glaub ich, her. Mhm. Und da dachte ich mir schon auch, das ist 'n abgefahrener Job. Also wenn Du einfach nur so damit dafür beschäftigt wirst, darüber nachzudenken, Wieso?\n\nWie das denn so in Zukunft irgendwie aussehen könnte. Und der war auch eher vom Typ her, wie Christian grade gesagt hat, so bisschen extravagant im Auftreten, bisschen schrill in den Slides, bisschen sehr fragil, wenn man nachgefragt hat, aber gedacht so, ja, warum nicht, wenn man Spaß daran hat irgendwie? Ja, muss man, glaube ich, der Typ für sein, aber sah ganz lustig aus. Ich hab einen Pick dabei, der eher sich die Gegenwart dreht. Hat 1 von euch Silicon Valley geguckt?\n\nDie, es war, glaub ich, 1 HBO Serie ist schon rum. Nein. Nein? Nein? Nein?\n\nNein? Okay. Ich weiß nicht, ob Okay, dann klottwist, das ist jetzt mein Pick, weil ihr habt das noch nicht geguckt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich wollt\n\nSpeaker 0: eigentlich was darauf aufbauen, Pipp, aber wenn ihr das noch nicht mal kennt, dann picken wir jetzt ganz kurz Silicon Valley. Okay. Silicon Valley ist eine Serie, die ist, glaub ich, jetzt schon 'n paar Jahre rum, hat auch nur son paar wenige Staffeln und erzählt im Prinzip die Geschichte von sonem sehr jungen Start-up, die versuchen, mit so diversesten Ideen erfolgreich zu sein eben im Valley. Erst mal sone Musikplattform, dann finden Sie nebenbei son abgefahrenen Kompressionsalgorithmus und wollen damit irgendwie groß rauskommen. Und das ist halt ein sehr, sehr dünner Mantel die aktuelle Tech Bubble rum.\n\nAlso es gibt eine Firma, die quasi 1 zu 1 'n Klon ist von Google, wo Du auch 1 zu 1 die Leute davon irgendwie erkennst. Das hat nur der Name und die Farben so ganz leicht geändert, Das Apple ist irgendwie da so, ja. Und das wurde damals sehr gefeiert, weil das halt superlustig und und schrill und und so was alles ist. Auch eine echt gute Comedy, gut geschrieben, gut gespielt. Aber alle, die sich halt so mit dem Valley auskennen, haben halt damals gesagt, nee, ist halt genauso.\n\nAlso auch wenn alle darüber lachen und das irgendwie mega überzogen wirkt, halt genauso passiert das halt so, 1 zu 1. Ich sag mal, die 1. Folge fängt irgendwie damit an, dass sie bei sonem Investor auf soner Gartenparty sind und Kit Rock spielt irgendwie im Garten für seine Gäste so, ja, und irgendjemand im Publikum meint so zu seinem Freund im Vorbeigehen so, ja, glaubst Du, KitRock ist mir darüber bewusst, dass er die armste Person auf diesem ganzen Gelände irgendwie ist so, ja? Und also ich glaub wirklich, genauso ticken da die Leute manchmal, ja? Und kann man kann man nur empfehlen.\n\nAlso Silicon Valley, es gibt abgefahrene Charaktere, es gibt sehr sympathische Nerds, so wie Big Bang Theory am Anfang auch war, ja, als man noch mit den Leuten gelacht hat und nicht über die Leute, fand ich's mehr cool. Ich nehm das jetzt als Ad hocic. Silicon Valley. Wenn ihr's noch nicht geguckt habt, unbedingt nachholen. Und wenn ihr's durchgeguckt habt, gibt es Hebt ihr's auf.\n\nNein, nein, nein, hat auch noch mit Silicon Valley zu tun. Das wurde, glaub ich, nämlich nie als Folge ausgestrahlt, aber es gibt ein, weiß nicht, sozusagen, geht nur 10, 15 Minuten. Das haben sie damals exklusiv auf Youtube veröffentlicht. Das muss man unbedingt auch noch gucken, weil da wird quasi die Geschichte erst so richtig fertig gemacht und ja. Cool.\n\nDas als mein Pick.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sehr gut.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, dann, also auch wenn Dennis schon Danke gesagt hat, quasi für alle, die zuhören und oder nicht zuhören, jetzt vielleicht nicht mehr zuhören, indem er Danke gesagt hat. Christian, trotzdem noch mal auch von mir, 1000 Dank. Schön, dass Du da warst. Danke, dass Du dir die Zeit genommen hast. Fand's superinteressant, da mal so hinter die Kulissen des Webs zu gucken oder das Internet ist auch ein Teil davon.\n\nMega cool und wir sollten auf alle Fälle, wenn diese WebMCP Nummer 'n bisschen durchgelaufen ist und ihr da eine Meinung habt und es da eine Entscheidung gibt, lass uns da gerne auch noch mal drüber sprechen. Da können wir vielleicht mal schauen so, wie war so der Prozess? Was ist da jetzt am Ende wirklich bei rausgekommen und wie finden wir das eigentlich so? Ja. Und dann schauen wir da noch mal rein.\n\nDann dauert's auch nicht wieder Ja,\n\nSpeaker 2: das muss. Ich wollt grad\n\nSpeaker 0: sagen, dann dauert's auch nicht 5 Jahre, bis wir uns widersprechen, aber das ist vielleicht 'n bisschen, diese komplexeren Feature können auch 5 Jahre dauern, weiß ich jetzt nicht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das liegt ja schon 'n bisschen. Insofern, das das Review, das wird innerhalb der nächsten Wochen ausgeführt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, Heard it your first. Schauen wir mal, wie's dann wie's dann kommt. Wunderbar. Christian, 1000 Dank, Dennis Danke. 1000 Dank, dass Du da mit dabei warst.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sehr gerne.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wenn ihr Fragen, Anregungen, Kritik habt, die nicht an Christian gehen, sondern an uns, dann gerne eine E-Mail an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar. Auch wir sind auf diversen Social Media Kanälen, LinkedIn, Kurznachrichtendiensten, wo auch immer. Ihr könnt auch gerne auf Youtube oder Spotify 'n Kommentar hinterlassen, den lesen wir auch fleißig mit. Und ansonsten hören wir uns in 1 Woche wieder mit den News.\n\nSpeaker 2: Bis dahin.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ach so.\n\nSpeaker 0: Bis dahin. Tschau, tschau. Bis bald. Tschau.",[35623,35636,35641,35646,35659,35664,35668,35674,35679,35692,35705,35716,35727,35734,35743,35748,35753,35759,35771,35779,35784,35797,35810,35819,35824,35828,35835,35843,35847,35851,35855,35862,35866,35869,35876,35889,35902,35915,35928,35940,35953,35966,35977,35984,35996,36009,36022,36035,36048,36056,36069,36078,36084,36095,36108,36121,36133,36146,36159,36172,36180,36189,36201,36213,36226,36235,36241,36254,36261,36265,36271,36284,36290,36295,36301,36305,36317,36330,36339,36348,36360,36373,36379,36392,36400,36413,36420,36433,36445,36458,36471,36484,36496,36508,36521,36534,36544,36557,36566,36578,36582,36589,36594,36597,36608,36612,36615,36624,36628,36635,36639,36643,36650,36659,36671,36683,36696,36702,36708,36713,36725,36738,36742,36746,36754,36758,36767,36779,36792,36805,36814,36820,36832,36843,36855,36867,36879,36891,36903,36915,36921,36927,36933,36942,36955,36967,36974,36980,36992,37004,37014,37018,37031,37035,37039,37050,37060,37072,37082,37090,37101,37113,37121,37125,37138,37151,37155,37163,37176,37188,37200,37206,37211,37221,37233,37244,37249,37258,37267,37273,37286,37298,37308,37316,37324,37329,37333,37339,37343,37355,37368,37374,37381,37387,37399,37412,37424,37436,37448,37451,37464,37475,37486,37490,37498,37502,37510,37520,37523,37527,37533,37537,37541,37549,37561,37573,37586,37590,37601,37604,37608,37612,37616,37622,37627,37639,37643,37652,37658,37664,37669,37673,37677,37681,37687,37692,37696,37707,37711,37715,37719,37730,37742,37754,37759,37772,37776,37782,37787,37798,37802,37810,37814,37820,37831,37837,37843,37847,37859,37871,37883,37891,37901,37913,37921,37927,37931,37942,37954,37966,37978,37989,37993,37997,38009,38020,38024,38030,38034,38040,38051,38055,38065,38069,38073],{"sentences":35624,"speaker":195,"num_words":35635,"start":192,"end":356},[35625,35627,35629,35631,35633],{"text":35626,"start":192,"end":242},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen Deep Dive hier in der Programmierbar.",{"text":35628,"start":247,"end":284},"Heute für euch vor der Kamera, Kamera, vor dem Mikrofon.",{"text":35630,"start":284,"end":327},"Ich weiß gar nicht, was mir ihr als Erstes sagt.",{"text":35632,"start":327,"end":345},"Ich bin Oh, natürlich.",{"text":35634,"start":348,"end":356},"Vor dem Mikrofon.",40,{"sentences":35637,"speaker":195,"num_words":35640,"start":358,"end":399},[35638],{"text":35639,"start":358,"end":399},"Ich bin der Jan Gregor im Getriebe und zu meiner linken Ecke sitzt",13,{"sentences":35642,"speaker":174,"num_words":35645,"start":402,"end":412},[35643],{"text":35644,"start":402,"end":412},"Dennis Becker, hallo.",3,{"sentences":35647,"speaker":195,"num_words":35658,"start":417,"end":751},[35648,35650,35652,35654,35656],{"text":35649,"start":417,"end":468},"Wir wollen heute mit einem Gast sprechen, der uns mit sehr viel Elan gepitcht worden ist.",{"text":35651,"start":472,"end":615},"Gepitcht worden von Christian Weiher, der ja, glaub ich, schon mehrfach bei uns im Podcast war und auch schon mehrfach bei uns auf der programmierbar Bühne gestanden hat, auf dem Meet-up, auf der Konferenz, auf, Christian sei eigentlich immer am Start, so.",{"text":35653,"start":619,"end":670},"Und der Christian hat uns 'n anderen Christian gepitcht und meinte, mit dem müsst ihr unbedingt mal reden.",{"text":35655,"start":673,"end":699},"Und ich glaube, was der Christian, also der 1.",{"text":35657,"start":699,"end":751},"Christian, nicht auf dem Schirm hatte, ist, dass der andere Christian auch schon mal bei uns im Podcast war.",104,{"sentences":35660,"speaker":195,"num_words":35663,"start":756,"end":795},[35661],{"text":35662,"start":756,"end":795},"Hab ich auch schon zweimal Weißt Du noch, wann das war?",11,{"sentences":35665,"speaker":174,"num_words":247,"start":798,"end":836},[35666],{"text":35667,"start":798,"end":836},"Ist lange her, würde ich sagen, zumindest 1 von den beiden Malen.",{"sentences":35669,"speaker":195,"num_words":35640,"start":841,"end":883},[35670,35672],{"text":35671,"start":841,"end":860},"Waren beide Male im selben Jahr.",{"text":35673,"start":860,"end":883},"Wir waren relativ kurz hintereinander tatsächlich sogar.",{"sentences":35675,"speaker":174,"num_words":35678,"start":883,"end":909},[35676],{"text":35677,"start":883,"end":909},"Ich dachte Mal 2022 oder 23.",6,{"sentences":35680,"speaker":195,"num_words":35691,"start":914,"end":1063},[35681,35683,35685,35687,35689],{"text":35682,"start":914,"end":942},"Siehst Du mal, wie man sich irren kann?",{"text":35684,"start":942,"end":962},"Oder seit 20 20 war das.",{"text":35686,"start":966,"end":1024},"So, ganz frühe Programmierbeizeiten Folge 70 und 72 über Web Components und Project Fugu.",{"text":35688,"start":1028,"end":1041},"Weißt Du noch, was das war?",{"text":35690,"start":1043,"end":1063},"Ist gibt's, glaube ich, immer noch, gell?",41,{"sentences":35693,"speaker":195,"num_words":35704,"start":1063,"end":1365},[35694,35696,35698,35700,35702],{"text":35695,"start":1063,"end":1088},"Ich guck mal ich guck mal ganz kurz.",{"text":35697,"start":1088,"end":1102},"Gibt's, glaube ich, noch.",{"text":35699,"start":1106,"end":1118},"Weiß jetzt Nein.",{"text":35701,"start":1122,"end":1143},"Web Browser Kafabilities und so was.",{"text":35703,"start":1147,"end":1365},"Und ähnlich dem Thema wollen wir heute auch widersprechen über Kafabilities und Web und Technik und Infrastruktur und Architektur und was da so alles hintendran Wir wollen heute sprechen mit Christian Diebel und zwar über die w 3 CTAG und was das ist, verrät er uns bestimmt gleich, aber Christian, wenn man bei dir auf dein LinkedIn Profil schaut, da weiß also da weiß man gar nicht, wo man anfangen soll, ja?",93,{"sentences":35706,"speaker":195,"num_words":35715,"start":1365,"end":1573},[35707,35709,35711,35713],{"text":35708,"start":1365,"end":1417},"Irgendwie GDI, Microsoft, MVP, dann findet man in deinem Feed unendlich viele Konferenzen.",{"text":35710,"start":1421,"end":1477},"Also Du scheinst überall unterwegs zu sein, wo es technisch auch nur ansatzweise spannend wird, so, ja?",{"text":35712,"start":1477,"end":1556},"Und daher freuen wir uns natürlich ganz besonders, dass Du zwischen all dem heute Zeit gefunden hast, mal sone gute Stunde mit uns darüber zu sprechen.",{"text":35714,"start":1556,"end":1573},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen, Christian Liebe.",62,{"sentences":35717,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35726,"start":1577,"end":1718},[35718,35720,35722,35724],{"text":35719,"start":1577,"end":1584},"Ja, hallo.",{"text":35721,"start":1584,"end":1600},"Dann danke für die Einladung.",{"text":35723,"start":1600,"end":1621},"Schön, dass ich wieder hier sein darf.",{"text":35725,"start":1626,"end":1718},"Genau Webcompons et cetera, Project Fu gibt es alles alles noch und ja, über das W3C, über das Web wollen wir heute reden und das ist spannend, definitiv.",42,{"sentences":35728,"speaker":195,"num_words":35733,"start":1722,"end":1849},[35729,35731],{"text":35730,"start":1722,"end":1813},"Vielleicht, bevor wir anfangen, da ins Detail zu gehen, erzähl uns doch mal, warum interessierst Du dich überhaupt so sehr für das Web und warum sollte man sich generell dafür interessieren?",{"text":35732,"start":1813,"end":1849},"Das machen doch schon irgendwelche Leute, die dafür sorgen, dass das alles passt.",44,{"sentences":35735,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35742,"start":1853,"end":1987},[35736,35738,35740],{"text":35737,"start":1853,"end":1869},"Gut, das ist eine gute Frage.",{"text":35739,"start":1869,"end":1921},"Meine, ja, Liebe zum Web, die liegt also die fangen schon sehr früh an tatsächlich.",{"text":35741,"start":1925,"end":1987},"Ich glaube, ich bin online, seit ich 4 bin und ich kann mich noch dran erinnern, dass ich Jetzt ist es auch.",43,{"sentences":35744,"speaker":195,"num_words":35747,"start":1987,"end":2023},[35745],{"text":35746,"start":1987,"end":2023},"Ohne ohne dir zu nahe treten, das Wort, aber man",10,{"sentences":35749,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35752,"start":2023,"end":2049},[35750],{"text":35751,"start":2023,"end":2049},"muss sich, glaube ich, relativieren, wie alt",7,{"sentences":35754,"speaker":195,"num_words":35663,"start":2049,"end":2086},[35755,35757],{"text":35756,"start":2049,"end":2058},"bist Du denn?",{"text":35758,"start":2058,"end":2086},"So, ja, das son bisschen einordnen zu können.",{"sentences":35760,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35770,"start":2091,"end":2356},[35761,35762,35764,35766,35768],{"text":2095,"start":2091,"end":2092},{"text":35763,"start":2097,"end":2164},"Also ich bin seit knapp 30 Jahren online und ich erinnere mich noch an die an die Zeit, an an die an die Anfangszeit.",{"text":35765,"start":2168,"end":2228},"Netzgate, Navigator oder Communicator hatten wir auch mit dem E-Mail-Programm integriert, Version 4 oder was es damals war.",{"text":35767,"start":2231,"end":2257},"Insofern ja, das Web bekleidet mich schon sehr, sehr lange.",{"text":35769,"start":2261,"end":2356},"Damals halt als Nutzer, ich glaube so im Alter von 10, habe ich immer Frontpage installiert und dann ja wollte ich halt auch mal selber sone Webseite bauen.",81,{"sentences":35772,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35733,"start":2360,"end":2498},[35773,35775,35777],{"text":35774,"start":2360,"end":2402},"Da hab ich dann das selber irgendwie durchgesucht, wie man das alles online kriegen kann.",{"text":35776,"start":2402,"end":2455},"Da gab's damals Lykos oder so was, so eine Webseite mit sonem mit sonem schwarzen Hund.",{"text":35778,"start":2459,"end":2498},"Falls euch an das erinnern könnt, da kommt man auch so 'n Free",{"sentences":35780,"speaker":195,"num_words":35783,"start":2498,"end":2516},[35781],{"text":35782,"start":2498,"end":2516},"Subhoster war das, ne?",4,{"sentences":35785,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35796,"start":2516,"end":2873},[35786,35788,35790,35792,35794],{"text":35787,"start":2516,"end":2630},"Richtig, nur mal einfach kostenlos Sachen hosten konnte und wie gesagt als Zehnjähriger hast Du bissel Taschengeld für Eis, aber halt jetzt nicht direkt für, was weiß ich, 'n Root Server oder so was.",{"text":35789,"start":2633,"end":2647},"Insofern waren das so die Anfänge.",{"text":35791,"start":2651,"end":2724},"Hatte dann im Studium Webengineering belegt, gut, war am Pflichtfach, aber das war auch die Vorlesung, die mir am meisten Spaß gemacht hat.",{"text":35793,"start":2728,"end":2826},"Und dann, als ich in Beruf eingestiegen bin, war halt eben grad der große Switchback von den klassischen Desktop Anwendungen, was ich, WPF Windows Forms hin zum Web.",{"text":35795,"start":2826,"end":2873},"Angularja S war damals und gerade in Phone Gap war groß diskutiert.",103,{"sentences":35798,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35809,"start":2877,"end":3113},[35799,35801,35803,35805,35807],{"text":35800,"start":2877,"end":2897},"Also die Cross Plattform Geschichte.",{"text":35802,"start":2901,"end":2966},"Und ja, während Studium habe ich mal im Studium mit einem Studienkollegen eine App gebaut, die oder was heißt eine App gebaut?",{"text":35804,"start":2966,"end":2982},"Wir haben eine Website gebaut.",{"text":35806,"start":2982,"end":3071},"Das war ein Spiel, haben wir im Rahmen dieser Web Engineering Vorlesungen entwickelt, war SVG basiert und dann kam damals Microsoft mit Windows 8 die Ecke.",{"text":35808,"start":3075,"end":3113},"Falls ihr euch erinnert, ne, Tablets und Touch und Apps und und alles.",71,{"sentences":35811,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35818,"start":3117,"end":3429},[35812,35814,35816],{"text":35813,"start":3117,"end":3279},"Und dann haben wir unsere Web App genommen und weil das damals mit Windows 8 ging, die haben HTML 5 Apps so nativ unterstützt, haben einfach diese Anwendung genommen, so wie sie war, in den Windows 8 Rahmen quasi reingeworfen und dann in den Store gestellt und haben dann dort etliche 1000 Downloads bekommen.",{"text":35815,"start":3279,"end":3302},"Ich weiß gar nicht mehr, wie viele das waren.",{"text":35817,"start":3306,"end":3429},"Aber das war so für mich der ja, so die Initialzündung, wo ich gedacht habe, krass, das kann man mit der Technologie machen und wie schnell hast Du eben auch aus soner normalen Webseite eben eine App gebastelt, die dann auch noch gut im Store performt.",109,{"sentences":35820,"speaker":174,"num_words":35823,"start":3433,"end":3481},[35821],{"text":35822,"start":3433,"end":3481},"Vergessen auch immer viele, ne, dass das so auch der Einstieg bei Apple war, so das Allererste.",17,{"sentences":35825,"speaker":1580,"num_words":1580,"start":3486,"end":3493},[35826,35827],{"text":3490,"start":3486,"end":3487},{"text":352,"start":3492,"end":3493},{"sentences":35829,"speaker":174,"num_words":35834,"start":3493,"end":3580},[35830,35832],{"text":35831,"start":3493,"end":3531},"dem SDB, es waren ja auch erst mal nur Web Apps, die Ganz genau.",{"text":35833,"start":3535,"end":3580},"Was immer, US 2 oder wie auch Ich weiß nicht mehr ganz genau, wie das nehmen",30,{"sentences":35836,"speaker":195,"num_words":35842,"start":3580,"end":3614},[35837,35839,35841],{"text":35838,"start":3580,"end":3595},"wir Apple US 1.",{"text":35840,"start":3595,"end":3609},"OS 1 hieß es.",{"text":3616,"start":3609,"end":3614},9,{"sentences":35844,"speaker":174,"num_words":1580,"start":3618,"end":3623},[35845,35846],{"text":3616,"start":3618,"end":3619},{"text":1424,"start":3619,"end":3623},{"sentences":35848,"speaker":195,"num_words":35640,"start":3623,"end":3664},[35849],{"text":35850,"start":3623,"end":3664},"sie das noch das Chat hatten zwischen iPhone OS und iPod Touch OS.",{"sentences":35852,"speaker":174,"num_words":1580,"start":3669,"end":3675},[35853],{"text":35854,"start":3669,"end":3675},"Okay, ja.",{"sentences":35856,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35861,"start":3679,"end":3839},[35857,35859],{"text":35858,"start":3679,"end":3777},"Und da gab es tatsächlich ja noch keinen Store und das wollten sie auch gar nicht haben, weil das ist ja böse und und gefährlich, wenn da quasi beliebige Software auf dem eigenen Gerät läuft.",{"text":35860,"start":3777,"end":3839},"Und da war in der Tat die Idee, ihr schreibt einfach nur Webseiten und könnt sie dann zum Home Bildschirm hinzufügen.",56,{"sentences":35863,"speaker":195,"num_words":247,"start":3842,"end":3879},[35864],{"text":35865,"start":3842,"end":3879},"Ja, Suite Solution, wie Steve Jobs damals auf der Bühne verkündet hat.",{"sentences":35867,"speaker":1580,"num_words":174,"start":3882,"end":3883},[35868],{"text":3886,"start":3882,"end":3883},{"sentences":35870,"speaker":195,"num_words":35875,"start":3888,"end":3987},[35871,35873],{"text":35872,"start":3888,"end":3963},"So und der Weg vom Microsoft App Store hin zur W3 CTHG, den stelle ich mir nicht gerade linear vor oder ist das so einfach?",{"text":35874,"start":3966,"end":3987},"Wie wie kommt man dann am Ende denn dahin?",34,{"sentences":35877,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35888,"start":3992,"end":4365},[35878,35880,35882,35884,35886],{"text":35879,"start":3992,"end":4032},"Ui, ja, nee, der war nicht so linear, der war auch überhaupt nicht vorausgezeichnet.",{"text":35881,"start":4036,"end":4071},"Vielleicht sage ich kurz was zu dem Gremium, was es überhaupt ist.",{"text":35883,"start":4073,"end":4125},"Also dieses ist eine Abkürzung, steht für Technical Architecture Group, also für die Technische Architekturgruppe.",{"text":35885,"start":4129,"end":4295},"Und das ist innerhalb des W3C des Standardisierungs Gremiums für das World Wide Web eine spezielle Arbeitsgruppe, die mit der Sicherstellung, Stewartship heißt es im Englischen, finde ich immer schwer zu übersetzen, die damit beauftragt ist, sagen wir's so, dass das Web quasi auch in Zukunft bestehen bleibt und nicht auseinanderfällt.",{"text":35887,"start":4299,"end":4365},"Also wir sollten gucken, dass der Architektur, das Web zusammengehalten wird, konsistent bleibt, so wie man's halt eben von Architekturboards kennt.",113,{"sentences":35890,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35901,"start":4371,"end":4562},[35891,35893,35895,35897,35899],{"text":35892,"start":4371,"end":4447},"Sind 12 Leute nur weltweit, ist gewählt, ein gewähltes Gremium innerhalb des B3C, also ein Teil des gewählten Teil wird besetzt vom B3C Team.",{"text":35894,"start":4450,"end":4510},"Der Erfinder des World Wide Web hat noch so einen Ehrensitz in der Gruppe Sir Tim Berners Lee.",{"text":35896,"start":4514,"end":4529},"Und genau, ich kannte dieses Gremium.",{"text":35898,"start":4529,"end":4545},"Ich wusste, dass es das gibt.",{"text":35900,"start":4548,"end":4562},"Und wie war der Weg dorthin?",60,{"sentences":35903,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35914,"start":4565,"end":4884},[35904,35906,35908,35910,35912],{"text":35905,"start":4565,"end":4659},"Ich habe im Kontext von Progressive Webwebs, das hat das auch mit Project Foogel zu tun und ist im Prinzip eine Fortsetzung von iPhone OS, über was wir grad eben geredet haben.",{"text":35907,"start":4659,"end":4702},"Diese Idee quasi, dass wir eine Webseite nehmen und die auf dem Gerät installierbar machen.",{"text":35909,"start":4702,"end":4767},"Also es quasi auch im Browser saß, ich möchte diese App installieren und dann wird die so dargestellt, als sei es eine native Anwendung.",{"text":35911,"start":4770,"end":4866},"Diese Grundidee haben wir tatsächlich damals beim iPhone gesehen und die kam dann so ab, ich sag jetzt mal grob 20 14 15 wieder auf und da wollte man das quasi auch in die übrigen Browser bringen.",{"text":35913,"start":4869,"end":4884},"Und da wurd damals viel implementiert.",114,{"sentences":35916,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35927,"start":4889,"end":5272},[35917,35919,35921,35923,35925],{"text":35918,"start":4889,"end":4970},"Serviceworker ist ein Beispiel davon, die Offline Fähigkeit, dass man Webseiten auch komplett offline halten kann auf dem Gerät, dass man nicht mal mehr eine Internetverbindung braucht.",{"text":35920,"start":4974,"end":5003},"Der Serviceworker kann auch Push Benachrichtigungen zum Beispiel entgegennehmen.",{"text":35922,"start":5003,"end":5165},"Da haben Websites zum ersten Mal Push Capabilities bekommen und dann eben auch die Möglichkeit zur Installation, sodass wenn ich dann auf den Button klicke und das Ding, also dann bekommt die Web App quasi einen Eintrag in der Programmliste, in der Task Bar, im Dock auf dem auf dem Startbildschirm des Geräts.",{"text":35924,"start":5168,"end":5213},"Und wenn ich's von da öffne, dann sieht diese App so aus, als sei sie eine aktive Anwendung.",{"text":35926,"start":5215,"end":5272},"Und ich hab im Jahr 20 18 da 'n Buch dazu geschrieben und hab in dem Kontext halt einfach Spezifikationen recherchiert.",128,{"sentences":35929,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35939,"start":5276,"end":5645},[35930,35932,35934,35936,35938],{"text":35931,"start":5276,"end":5303},"Und zwar insbesondere die Spezifikation des Web Application Manifest.",{"text":35933,"start":5307,"end":5352},"Das ist die SPAC, die sich darum kümmert, die Darstellung der auf dem Gerät installierten App.",{"text":35935,"start":5352,"end":5465},"Also wenn ich sage, ich möchte diese App gerne installieren, dann definiert dieses Manifest das Icon, den Namen der der Anwendung, mögliche Shortcuts, die Hintergrundfarbe, die angezeigt werden soll und so weiter und noch auch vieles weitere mehr.",{"text":35937,"start":5468,"end":5642},"Und in dem Kontext hab ich mir einfach Desback durchgelesen, weil ich das ja im Buch auch quasi dann beschreiben wollte, was man da alles einstellen kann, was Möglichkeiten es gibt und hab mir da Respekt hergenommen und hab dann ganz ja Low key angefangen und hab am Anfang einfach mal ja, typos korrigiert, denen der Spezifikationen waren, so 1.",{"text":5647,"start":5644,"end":5645},124,{"sentences":35941,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35952,"start":5649,"end":5811},[35942,35944,35946,35948,35950],{"text":35943,"start":5649,"end":5680},"Und aus den Hypos wurden dann irgendwann also schon kleinere Features.",{"text":35945,"start":5684,"end":5715},"Und das ist dann bei B3C son Überschreiten von 'ner Schwelle.",{"text":35947,"start":5718,"end":5781},"Denn sobald man substanziell an Spezifikationen arbeitet, muss man W3C Mitglied werden und oder eingeladener Experte sein, ein erweiterter Experte.",{"text":35949,"start":5781,"end":5791},"Das geht auch.",{"text":35951,"start":5793,"end":5811},"Und dann kam damals Leute auf mich zu.",53,{"sentences":35954,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35965,"start":5811,"end":5999},[35955,35957,35959,35961,35963],{"text":35956,"start":5811,"end":5869},"Es waren konkret Leute von Intel gewesen und haben gesagt, hey, das ist doch ziemlich cool, was ihr da macht.",{"text":35958,"start":5869,"end":5887},"Wollt ihr nicht W3C Mitglied werden?",{"text":35960,"start":5890,"end":5948},"Dann haben wir das intern besprochen bei uns bei Thinktacture und haben uns entschieden, das zu machen und sind W3C Mitglied geworden.",{"text":35962,"start":5948,"end":5975},"Das ist jetzt der Start in der Standardisierungswelt gewesen.",{"text":35964,"start":5978,"end":5999},"20 18 Uhr 19 sind wir Mitglied geworden.",65,{"sentences":35967,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35976,"start":5999,"end":6223},[35968,35970,35972,35974],{"text":35969,"start":5999,"end":6054},"Ich war 20 19 und zum ersten Mal bei soner beim Jahrestreffen des w3 c dabei, bei der sogenannten TIPEC.",{"text":35971,"start":6058,"end":6149},"Das ist die Technical Plannery and Advisory Committee Meetingwoche des w3 c, die tatsächlich auch über dem kompletten Planeten verteilt dann immer stattfindet, also jedes Jahr in 'ner anderen Region.",{"text":35973,"start":6152,"end":6200},"Und 20 19 war das in Fukuka gewesen in Südjapan und hab dort zum ersten Mal die Leute kennengelernt.",{"text":35975,"start":6200,"end":6223},"Ja, und gelernt, wie Standardisierungsarbeit funktioniert.",75,{"sentences":35978,"speaker":195,"num_words":35983,"start":6226,"end":6279},[35979,35981],{"text":35980,"start":6226,"end":6244},"Wie wie trocken muss ich mir das vorstellen?",{"text":35982,"start":6247,"end":6279},"Also es klingt erst mal sehr trocken, wenn Du so von Standardisierungsarbeit sprichst.",21,{"sentences":35985,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35861,"start":6283,"end":6443},[35986,35988,35990,35992,35994],{"text":35987,"start":6283,"end":6312},"Ich würd sie nicht als trocken bezeichnen, sie ist extrem langsam.",{"text":35989,"start":6312,"end":6324},"Das muss man wissen.",{"text":35991,"start":6324,"end":6347},"Also selbst einfachste Features brauchen Jahre.",{"text":35993,"start":6351,"end":6394},"Das ist quasi die das ist eher die Eigenschaft, die ich der SPAC Arbeit zuschreiben würde.",{"text":35995,"start":6397,"end":6443},"Trocken ist, finde ich es nicht, weil man das ja immer mit ganz, ganz, ganz vielen Stakeholdern besprechen muss.",{"sentences":35997,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36008,"start":6443,"end":6574},[35998,36000,36002,36004,36006],{"text":35999,"start":6443,"end":6471},"Es gibt zum einen ja erst mal 3 unabhängig Browser Engines.",{"text":36001,"start":6471,"end":6515},"Das heißt, mit denen muss man reden und mit den Leuten, die da hinten dran stehen.",{"text":36003,"start":6519,"end":6544},"Man muss mit den Softwareentwicklern reden, was brauchen die überhaupt?",{"text":36005,"start":6544,"end":6554},"Was wünschen die sich?",{"text":36007,"start":6554,"end":6574},"Was erwarten die sich von soner API?",48,{"sentences":36010,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36021,"start":6574,"end":6821},[36011,36013,36015,36017,36019],{"text":36012,"start":6574,"end":6652},"Kann man die dann so bauen, dass da auch in das in die Architektur, ja, das Web passt, dass sich quasi Sicherheit und Privatsphäre der Anwender auch bewahrt.",{"text":36014,"start":6655,"end":6687},"Dann natürlich auch gucken, ist es was, was zu den Nutzern wiederum passt?",{"text":36016,"start":6691,"end":6702},"Also es ist extrem abwechslungsreich.",{"text":36018,"start":6707,"end":6761},"Es ist manchmal auch durchaus anstrengend, wie gesagt, weil es sich so lange halt auch zieht und sehr viel reviewed wird.",{"text":36020,"start":6764,"end":6821},"Das Web funktioniert beispielsweise auch so, zumindest auf der w 3 c Seite, dass alle Entscheidungen immer Konsensentscheidungen sein müssen.",87,{"sentences":36023,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36034,"start":6821,"end":7078},[36024,36026,36028,36030,36032],{"text":36025,"start":6821,"end":6873},"Das heißt, anders wie bei uns in der Demokratie, ja, wo irgendwie 50 Prozent plus eine Stimme genügt.",{"text":36027,"start":6877,"end":6904},"Konsens heißt, wir arbeiten so lange, bis keiner mehr schreit.",{"text":36029,"start":6907,"end":6942},"Und das kann ebenfalls wieder lange dauern und dann werden ganz lange Argumente ausgetauscht.",{"text":36031,"start":6942,"end":7003},"Es dreht sich auch oftmals im Kreis, aber am Ende hast Du dafür immer eine 1 Lösung, die, wie ich finde, gut ist.",{"text":36033,"start":7005,"end":7078},"Und Du hast eine Lösung, die aus so vielen Blickwinkeln betrachtet wurde und reviewed wurde, dass es sehr unwahrscheinlich ist, dass da noch irgend 'n Grundproblem besteht.",92,{"sentences":36036,"speaker":195,"num_words":36047,"start":7081,"end":7525},[36037,36039,36041,36043,36045],{"text":36038,"start":7081,"end":7106},"Aber in was für 'nem Spannungsverhältnis arbeitet man denn da?",{"text":36040,"start":7106,"end":7206},"Weil, also ich seh da schon sehr unterschiedliche Gruppen aufeinandertreffen, ja, und die haben ja auch alle im Prinzip die Möglichkeit, ihre Lösung außerhalb der TAG oder des b3s insgesamt irgendwie zu forcieren, ja.",{"text":36042,"start":7206,"end":7261},"Also wenn ich jetzt an Browserhersteller denk, die können ja per se auch erst mal schippen, was sie wollen, ne.",{"text":36044,"start":7261,"end":7342},"Ja, dann ist es vielleicht jetzt nicht so universal supportet oder so, aber Chrome Firefox, die können morgen eine API releasen, ohne ja aufrecht angewiesen zu sein, ja?",{"text":36046,"start":7342,"end":7525},"Und andererseits auf Developer Seite kann man auch, wenn man mal son paar Jahre Jahrzehnte zurückdenkt und sich anschaut, was für eine Vormachtstellung so und wie irgendwie JQURE oder so was hatten, ja, wo Du im Prinzip alles, was heute so diese document Accesser Funktionen sind, ja, die da im Prinzip voran gedacht worden sind, das geht ja auch ohne Browsersupport, ja?",154,{"sentences":36049,"speaker":195,"num_words":35809,"start":7525,"end":7699},[36050,36052,36054],{"text":36051,"start":7525,"end":7553},"Also wenn Developer das wollen, dann kriegen sie's auch irgendwie hin.",{"text":36053,"start":7553,"end":7577},"Wenn Browserhersteller das wollen, kriegen sie's auch irgendwie hin.",{"text":36055,"start":7579,"end":7699},"Wie kriegt man die denn dann am Ende irgendwie doch alle an einen Tisch und sagt so, hey, vielleicht ist ja doch irgendwie ganz gut, wenn wir das gemeinsam machen und nicht 1 da jetzt irgendwie ausbricht, weil ihm das zu lange dauert oder zu weit weg von seinen Idealvorstellungen kommt?",{"sentences":36057,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36068,"start":7702,"end":7963},[36058,36060,36062,36064,36066],{"text":36059,"start":7702,"end":7747},"Ja, zunächst mal so der Befund, der ist absolut richtig und das gilt auch nach wie vor so.",{"text":36061,"start":7747,"end":7784},"Browserhersteller können zunächst mal tun und lassen, was sie wollen und das passiert auch.",{"text":36063,"start":7784,"end":7838},"Wer zum Beispiel die Google I0I0I0 verfolgt hat, hat da zum Beispiel HTML in Canvas gesehen.",{"text":36065,"start":7841,"end":7852},"Das ist eine coole Sache.",{"text":36067,"start":7852,"end":7963},"Du kannst es quasi einfach normale Elemente kannst Du nehmen und in dein Canvas reinpacken und so die normalen Short Cards und quasi Maus Klick Boundaries und so was die die Hitboxen, die funktionieren einfach weiter.",89,{"sentences":36070,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36077,"start":7966,"end":8014},[36071,36073,36075],{"text":36072,"start":7966,"end":7980},"Das ist eine sehr, sehr coole Sache.",{"text":36074,"start":7980,"end":8004},"Also ich persönlich als Entwickler freue mich da drüber.",{"text":36076,"start":8009,"end":8014},"Hat's mir",18,{"sentences":36079,"speaker":195,"num_words":35747,"start":8014,"end":8044},[36080,36082],{"text":36081,"start":8014,"end":8028},"hier auch in den News?",{"text":36083,"start":8028,"end":8044},"Hat sich auch alle gefreut.",{"sentences":36085,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36094,"start":8049,"end":8271},[36086,36087,36088,36090,36092],{"text":8052,"start":8049,"end":8050},{"text":8057,"start":8050,"end":8055},{"text":36089,"start":8060,"end":8138},"Allerdings und jetzt kommt so ein bisschen die Einschränkung, ist das, soweit ich weiß, also es ist definitiv mal eine Sache, die sehr stark von Chromium getrieben wird.",{"text":36091,"start":8141,"end":8170},"Aber es würde mich auch nicht allzu weit ausm Fenster lehnen.",{"text":36093,"start":8170,"end":8271},"Ich glaube, Apple ist da noch nicht so an Bord und bei Mozilla kenne ich grad nicht die, Also am besten researcht man das mal, aber hier ist Google quasi vorgeprescht und sagt, das ist eine gute Sache, wir sollten das haben.",83,{"sentences":36096,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36107,"start":8273,"end":8512},[36097,36099,36101,36103,36105],{"text":36098,"start":8273,"end":8289},"Und dann wird es in der Tat diskutiert.",{"text":36100,"start":8292,"end":8414},"Accessability Leute beispielsweise finden das gut, weil wir sonst keine Möglichkeit haben im in 'nem Canvas, ne, was halt aus Pixeldaten besteht, Beschreibungen zu haben, was da grade so dargestellt wird, sodass Leute hergehen und unsichtbare Buttons quasi über den Canvas zeichnen.",{"text":36102,"start":8414,"end":8443},"Und da sind wir im Prinzip genau bei HTML in Canvas, ja?",{"text":36104,"start":8443,"end":8471},"Und das würde quasi dann das das Problem adressieren und lösen.",{"text":36106,"start":8471,"end":8512},"Aber es funktioniert ganz, ganz oft so, dass halt Anwender halt vorbrischt und Dinge implementiert.",88,{"sentences":36109,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36120,"start":8512,"end":8743},[36110,36112,36114,36116,36118],{"text":36111,"start":8512,"end":8558},"Und es gibt in der Tat keine Garantie, dass das dann später auch in allen Browsern landet.",{"text":36113,"start":8561,"end":8641},"Manchmal ist es der Druck von Entwicklern selber, kann aber zum Beispiel auch von Regulatorenseite kommen, dass dann sone Schnittstelle später implementiert werden muss oder werden sollte.",{"text":36115,"start":8644,"end":8692},"Aber zunächst einmal ist es ja auch das das Schöne am World Wide Web, dass jeder sehr frei ist.",{"text":36117,"start":8692,"end":8716},"Also ist halt eine Community, wo sehr viele Leute zusammenkommen.",{"text":36119,"start":8720,"end":8743},"Es kann jeder jede Webseite betreiben, die er mag.",82,{"sentences":36122,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35861,"start":8743,"end":8899},[36123,36125,36127,36129,36131],{"text":36124,"start":8743,"end":8762},"Jeder kann Server zur Verfügung stellen.",{"text":36126,"start":8765,"end":8774},"Es gibt keine Zensur.",{"text":36128,"start":8777,"end":8816},"Es gibt also quasi jeder kann zunächst mal im Web tun und lassen, was er will.",{"text":36130,"start":8820,"end":8886},"Wo da jetzt diese diese Gruppe, die w 13 Tag quasi dann reinkommt, ist, hier dieser Community aber 'n bisschen das den Weg zu zeigen.",{"text":36132,"start":8890,"end":8899},"Ja, das ist die Idee.",{"sentences":36134,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36145,"start":8899,"end":9054},[36135,36137,36139,36141,36143],{"text":36136,"start":8899,"end":8920},"Die Tag hat tatsächlich auch keine formale Macht.",{"text":36138,"start":8920,"end":8935},"Sie kann keine API blockieren.",{"text":36140,"start":8938,"end":8957},"Sie kann keine API abschalten lassen oder so.",{"text":36142,"start":8960,"end":8989},"Konkretes Beispiel, hier sind zum Beispiel Third Party Cookies.",{"text":36144,"start":8993,"end":9054},"Ist zum Beispiel etwas, wo die Tag der Auffassung ist, dass es sie, dass sie abgeschaltet werden sollten, dass es sie nicht geben sollte.",54,{"sentences":36147,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36158,"start":9056,"end":9193},[36148,36150,36152,36154,36156],{"text":36149,"start":9056,"end":9096},"So, jetzt ist die Landschaft so, dass das in Firefox und in Safari auch gemacht wurde.",{"text":36151,"start":9100,"end":9116},"Aber in Chrome ist es noch immer so.",{"text":36153,"start":9116,"end":9139},"Da sind die per Standard quasi immer noch aktiv.",{"text":36155,"start":9139,"end":9150},"Du kannst sie ausschalten.",{"text":36157,"start":9154,"end":9193},"Aber hier hat sich dann zum Beispiel dazu entschieden, diesem Rat nicht zu folgen.",51,{"sentences":36160,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36171,"start":9193,"end":9384},[36161,36163,36165,36167,36169],{"text":36162,"start":9193,"end":9214},"Und das ist zunächst mal dann auch erlaubt.",{"text":36164,"start":9218,"end":9269},"Aber es wird schon auf die Empfehlungen und die, ich nenn sie mal Beschlüsse der Tag auch schon geachtet.",{"text":36166,"start":9273,"end":9351},"Ja, das kann zum Beispiel für Regulator und Grundlage für eine Entscheidung sein, wenn dieses gewichtige Gremium sagt, das ist eine gute Sache oder das ist eine schlechte Sache.",{"text":36168,"start":9351,"end":9359},"Bitte nicht machen.",{"text":36170,"start":9362,"end":9384},"Ja, und damit dann solche Entscheidungen durchaus beeinflussen kann.",68,{"sentences":36173,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35861,"start":9384,"end":9540},[36174,36176,36178],{"text":36175,"start":9384,"end":9401},"Weiteres Beispiel, der Chrom Chromium.",{"text":36177,"start":9405,"end":9491},"Sieht auch vor, dass ein Feature, ein positives Tag Review haben muss und wenn es das nicht hat, dann können sie immer noch schippen, aber quasi dann muss man erst mal rechtfertigen, warum.",{"text":36179,"start":9494,"end":9540},"Ne, also insofern hat das Gremium da schon etwas zu sagen, aber hat formal, wie gesagt, keine Macht.",{"sentences":36181,"speaker":174,"num_words":36188,"start":9542,"end":9613},[36182,36184,36186],{"text":36183,"start":9542,"end":9567},"Wie ist denn der restliche W3 c irgendwie organisiert?",{"text":36185,"start":9567,"end":9595},"Also wie viele dieser Gruppen gibt es für unterschiedliche Bereiche?",{"text":36187,"start":9595,"end":9613},"Wie viele arbeiten da so aktiv insgesamt mit?",27,{"sentences":36190,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35976,"start":9616,"end":9843},[36191,36193,36195,36197,36199],{"text":36192,"start":9616,"end":9646},"Es gibt, ich bin mir über die genaue Zahl nicht sicher.",{"text":36194,"start":9646,"end":9684},"Ich glaube, dass es 43 Arbeitsgruppen sind, die an unterschiedlichsten Themen arbeiten.",{"text":36196,"start":9684,"end":9786},"Es gibt beispielsweise, es gibt CSS, es gibt Web Apps, Web Security, es gibt Devices and sensus, es gibt, also wirklich alles Mögliche, was halt irgendwie so lose auch mit dem World Wide Web zusammenhängt.",{"text":36198,"start":9791,"end":9816},"Insofern, in diesen unterschiedlichen Workstreams wird daran gearbeitet.",{"text":36200,"start":9819,"end":9843},"Dazu kommt noch eine Anzahl von sogenannten Community groups.",{"sentences":36202,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35770,"start":9847,"end":10082},[36203,36205,36207,36209,36211],{"text":36204,"start":9847,"end":9903},"Der Unterschied hier ist, dass Working groups die sind, die die Dokumente verabschieden können, die auf dem Track landen.",{"text":36206,"start":9908,"end":9974},"Das heißt, der W3C ist ein Webstandard und nur diese, sagen wir mal, 43 Arbeitsgruppen können quasi solche Webstandards dann schlussendlich auch publizieren.",{"text":36208,"start":9977,"end":10007},"Die Community groups sind dafür gedacht, dass man son bissel machen kann.",{"text":36210,"start":10007,"end":10060},"Es gibt auch Hürden für Arbeitsgruppen, zum Beispiel, damit irgendwas werden kann, braucht es Unterstützung durch 2 unterschiedliche Browserengines.",{"text":36212,"start":10064,"end":10082},"Und es gibt ja nur noch 3 unabhängige.",{"sentences":36214,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36225,"start":10086,"end":10208},[36215,36217,36219,36221,36223],{"text":36216,"start":10086,"end":10123},"Das ist einmal Chromium, dann Gecko, also Firefox und einmal Webkit, also Safari.",{"text":36218,"start":10126,"end":10154},"Und hier müssen sich immer 2 zusammenfinden, damit etwas werden kann.",{"text":36220,"start":10154,"end":10170},"Ist zum Beispiel schon mal eine Barriere.",{"text":36222,"start":10173,"end":10183},"Und da gibt's Community Gruppen.",{"text":36224,"start":10186,"end":10208},"Ich vermute mal, dass es mehr gibt als als Arbeitsgruppen.",46,{"sentences":36227,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36234,"start":10212,"end":10398},[36228,36230,36232],{"text":36229,"start":10212,"end":10228},"Und die können halt diese Dokumente nicht erstellen.",{"text":36231,"start":10231,"end":10332},"Aber es ist ein Ort, mit dem man, wenn sie zum Beispiel eine Chromium only API ist, trotzdem schon mal mit der Community diskutieren kann und ein Spezifikation Dokument erstellen kann, das dann später Grundlage sein kann für eine solche.",{"text":36233,"start":10336,"end":10398},"Dann ist es natürlich möglich, dass man später eine Spezifikation aus der Community Group nimmt und die einfach in die passende Working Group dann überträgt.",73,{"sentences":36236,"speaker":195,"num_words":35875,"start":10401,"end":10494},[36237,36239],{"text":36238,"start":10401,"end":10483},"Das sind ja bei jetzt über 40 Gruppen einiges an an Menschen und da hintendran wahrscheinlich auch noch 'n bisschen so Metaorganisation, das alles, ne, zu organisieren, zusammenzuhalten, zu strukturieren.",{"text":36240,"start":10486,"end":10494},"Wer bezahlt das denn?",{"sentences":36242,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36253,"start":10497,"end":10641},[36243,36245,36247,36249,36251],{"text":36244,"start":10497,"end":10503},"Guter Punkt.",{"text":36246,"start":10508,"end":10522},"SWR3 c ist eine Mitgliederorganisation.",{"text":36248,"start":10526,"end":10552},"Das heißt, das wird getragen durch wieder eine gewisse Anzahl Mitgliedern.",{"text":36250,"start":10552,"end":10611},"Vielleicht sollt ich einfach mal kurz die die Webseite hier nebenbei auch machen, dann können wir die Zahlen ganz genau mal raussuchen.",{"text":36252,"start":10614,"end":10641},"Und die Mitglieder zahlen dann Mitgliedsgebühren entsprechend ihres Jahresumsatzes.",49,{"sentences":36255,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36260,"start":10645,"end":10736},[36256,36258],{"text":36257,"start":10645,"end":10711},"Also jetzt fängt Thaxon beispielsweise 'n relativ kleines Unternehmen und das hat dann das Glück, dass es eben 'n Start-up Preis gibt.",{"text":36259,"start":10714,"end":10736},"Also die verstaffelte Beiträge dann quasi jetzt",29,{"sentences":36262,"speaker":195,"num_words":35747,"start":10736,"end":10764},[36263],{"text":36264,"start":10736,"end":10764},"nicht so 5 Prozent des Jahresumsatzes oder so was Pauschales.",{"sentences":36266,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35640,"start":10767,"end":10812},[36267,36269],{"text":36268,"start":10767,"end":10791},"Das ist laut der Analok von Kirchenzehnt.",{"text":36270,"start":10795,"end":10812},"Es gibt konkrete Stufen im Prinzip.",{"sentences":36272,"speaker":195,"num_words":36283,"start":10812,"end":10976},[36273,36275,36277,36279,36281],{"text":36274,"start":10812,"end":10828},"Und da kann aber jeder Mitglied werden?",{"text":36276,"start":10828,"end":10930},"Das heißt, wenn ich jetzt hier mit meiner Mittel kleinen Bude aus Bad Nauheim irgendwie Interesse hab, dem B3 c beizutreten, kann ich da morgen meine Anmeldung hinschicken und dann bin ich da auch dabei.",{"text":36278,"start":10930,"end":10938},"So sieht's aus.",{"text":36280,"start":10941,"end":10957},"Vielleicht sollten wir uns das mal überlegen.",{"text":36282,"start":10957,"end":10976},"Die Programmierer wird Mitglied beim B3 c.",59,{"sentences":36285,"speaker":1580,"num_words":193,"start":10980,"end":11001},[36286,36288],{"text":36287,"start":10980,"end":10993},"Wir freuen uns immer über Zahlen.",{"text":36289,"start":10993,"end":11001},"Nee, aber",{"sentences":36291,"speaker":174,"num_words":36294,"start":11003,"end":11015},[36292],{"text":36293,"start":11003,"end":11015},"Und ist das nicht das?",5,{"sentences":36296,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35663,"start":11015,"end":11049},[36297,36299],{"text":36298,"start":11015,"end":11032},"In der in der Organisation.",{"text":36300,"start":11032,"end":11049},"Es ist eine wichtige wichtige Sache.",{"sentences":36302,"speaker":174,"num_words":35823,"start":11051,"end":11098},[36303],{"text":36304,"start":11051,"end":11098},"Ja, und die Arbeit, die Du machst, ist dann ehrenamtlich oder gibt's dafür irgend eine Vergütung dann?",{"sentences":36306,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35715,"start":11102,"end":11258},[36307,36309,36311,36313,36315],{"text":36308,"start":11102,"end":11129},"Nee, diese Arbeit ist tatsächlich ehrenamtlich und also in in jeder Hinsicht.",{"text":36310,"start":11129,"end":11144},"Ich bin jetzt in 2 Arbeitsgruppen.",{"text":36312,"start":11144,"end":11226},"Ich bin in der Web Apps Arbeitsgruppe und in der Web Machine Learning Arbeitsgruppe und der Community Group, die zugehört, bin SPAC Autor beim Manifest beispielsweise, dann spielt er auch geworden.",{"text":36314,"start":11226,"end":11238},"Das ist alles ehrenamtliche Arbeiten.",{"text":36316,"start":11238,"end":11258},"Genauso ist es auch die in der Tag.",{"sentences":36318,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36329,"start":11258,"end":11470},[36319,36321,36323,36325,36327],{"text":36320,"start":11258,"end":11293},"Es gibt wirklich gar keinen gar keine finanzielle Unterstützung von der b3 c Seite.",{"text":36322,"start":11293,"end":11306},"Das bezahlt dankenswerterweise auch alles.",{"text":36324,"start":11306,"end":11350},"Mein Arbeitgeber ThinkTry, ne, hier quasi sagen, das ist eine gute Sache, Standardisierungsarbeit im Web.",{"text":36326,"start":11353,"end":11415},"Das möchten wir gerne unterstützen und insofern bin ich sehr dankbar, dass mein Arbeitgeber mich für die Zeit auch freistellt, die das Ganze benötigt.",{"text":36328,"start":11415,"end":11470},"Wir haben 3 Calls in der Woche aus der Tag quasi, wo wir dann über die verschiedenen Vorschläge drüber schauen.",78,{"sentences":36331,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36338,"start":11470,"end":11562},[36332,36334,36336],{"text":36333,"start":11470,"end":11518},"Und es gibt 2 vor Ort Treffen, die ebenfalls dann wieder über den Globus verteilt stattfinden.",{"text":36335,"start":11521,"end":11548},"Und ja, dafür müssen natürlich auch Flug und Hotel gezahlt werden.",{"text":36337,"start":11551,"end":11562},"Das heißt, das kommt",31,{"sentences":36340,"speaker":195,"num_words":36347,"start":11564,"end":11763},[36341,36343,36345],{"text":36342,"start":11564,"end":11594},"Selbst das zahlt die Tech nicht mal aus aus quasi Mitgliedsbeiträgen.",{"text":36344,"start":11598,"end":11658},"Das heißt, wenn Du ehrenamtlich mithelfen willst, ist es nicht mal nur mit deiner Zeit getan, sondern es kommen auch noch Kosten auf dich.",{"text":36346,"start":11658,"end":11763},"Ich mein, in dem Fall trägt das jetzt dein Arbeitgeber, das ist cool, aber wenn ich jetzt selbst alleine Mitglied werden wollen würde und da kein Backing hab, dann kommen am Ende neben der im Aufwand auch noch Kosten auf mich zu.",77,{"sentences":36349,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36359,"start":11765,"end":11953},[36350,36351,36353,36355,36357],{"text":36278,"start":11765,"end":11771},{"text":36352,"start":11774,"end":11801},"Es gibt da verschiedene Modelle, ja, wie wie Leute das fahren.",{"text":36354,"start":11801,"end":11822},"Ich hab jetzt, wie gesagt, diese Lösung dankenswerterweise.",{"text":36356,"start":11826,"end":11873},"Wir haben aber auch unabhängige Freelancer in der Tech drin beispielsweise und die lassen sich zum Beispiel sponsoren.",{"text":36358,"start":11877,"end":11953},"Also wo's einfach 'n 'n Fonds gibt, wo dann wieder andere Firmen oder sogar Einzelpersonen einfach dann Geld einbezahlen, damit die Leute ihrer Arbeit nachkommen können.",66,{"sentences":36361,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36372,"start":11953,"end":12158},[36362,36364,36366,36368,36370],{"text":36363,"start":11953,"end":11985},"Weil das ist so, ne, ist ja schon 'n gewisser Teil Arbeitszeit.",{"text":36365,"start":11989,"end":12034},"Und ein Flug über den Atlantik ist dann auch nicht das Günstigste, vor allem aktuell gerade nicht.",{"text":36367,"start":12037,"end":12055},"Und ja, das muss man eben dann können.",{"text":36369,"start":12057,"end":12086},"Und manche, die schalten sich dann eben auch digital zu, ne.",{"text":36371,"start":12086,"end":12158},"Also nächstes Face to Face ist Vancouver und dann haben manche gesagt, das schaffe ich nicht und dann gibt's natürlich auch die Möglichkeit 1 Remote Teilnahme.",74,{"sentences":36374,"speaker":195,"num_words":35952,"start":12161,"end":12302},[36375,36377],{"text":36376,"start":12161,"end":12180},"Ja, ist halt son Teilhabeding auch, ne.",{"text":36378,"start":12180,"end":12302},"Also es gibt ja dann vielleicht durchaus Stimmen, die qualifiziert werden oder 'n berechtigtes Interesse irgendwie hätten, da dabei zu sein, aber wenn man sich das halt nicht leisten kann im wahrsten Sinne des Wortes, ne, dann wird's wahrscheinlich auch schwierig für den ein oder anderen.",{"sentences":36380,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36391,"start":12305,"end":12572},[36381,36383,36385,36387,36389],{"text":36382,"start":12305,"end":12327},"Ja, dann ist man natürlich trotzdem nicht draußen, ja.",{"text":36384,"start":12327,"end":12355},"Also auch das biete ich immer explizit und sehr gerne an.",{"text":36386,"start":12359,"end":12464},"Weebentwickler jeder Art, ja, die Anfragen haben, die dürfen gerne an mich, gerne einfach eine E-Mail schreiben und ich nehme sie gerne mit oder bringen sie dann zur passenden Gruppe, wo es in deren Zuständigkeitsbereich es dann eben fällt.",{"text":36388,"start":12467,"end":12516},"Genau, weil wir das wissen, dass es halt nicht einfach Ist, an diese an die richtigen Leute zu kommen.",{"text":36390,"start":12520,"end":12572},"Als normaler Entwickler kannst Du halt eben nicht in der Regel beim, ich sag jetzt mal beim Edge Team anrufen.",98,{"sentences":36393,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35823,"start":12575,"end":12628},[36394,36396,36398,36399],{"text":36395,"start":12575,"end":12602},"Aber wir stellen diese diese Kommunikationsinfrastruktur gern zur Verfügung.",{"text":36397,"start":12602,"end":12619},"Die Brücke quasi schlagen wir gerne.",{"text":12625,"start":12623,"end":12624},{"text":12629,"start":12627,"end":12628},{"sentences":36401,"speaker":195,"num_words":36412,"start":12631,"end":12935},[36402,36404,36406,36408,36410],{"text":36403,"start":12631,"end":12676},"Jetzt sind wir schon direkt so in die Arbeit reingesprungen, als wir über deinen Weg dahin gesprochen haben.",{"text":36405,"start":12676,"end":12695},"Ich weiß noch, Christian, als wir das 1.",{"text":36407,"start":12695,"end":12804},"Mal über das Thema gesprochen haben, hab ich son bisschen im Scherz gesagt, wenn ich mir versuche vorzustellen, eine Gruppe von Menschen, die so über die Zukunft des Internets bestimmen, dann denke ich nicht in allererster Linie an den Christian aus Karlsruhe.",{"text":36409,"start":12808,"end":12911},"So, sondern ich denk an irgendwie große Firmen wie, weiß ich nicht, ne, Google hat da irgendwie Interesse, vielleicht auch Cloudflare und Ackermai, die halt irgendwie viel Infrastruktur betreiben oder Leute, die halt irgendwie Security Stakes dadrin haben so.",{"text":36411,"start":12913,"end":12935},"Und das das würde ich gerne mal noch beleuchten, ja.",117,{"sentences":36414,"speaker":195,"num_words":36419,"start":12935,"end":13202},[36415,36417],{"text":36416,"start":12935,"end":13112},"Du hast da so zwar nur gesagt, na ja, was dich da halt irgendwie so sehr interessiert und dann sind da so proaktiv auf die Leute zugekommen, aber ich find das 'n superinteressanten Aspekt davon, ja, dass dass es da eben offensichtlich nicht son hartes Gatekeeping gibt, sondern vielmehr es halt darum geht, okay, wenn da jemand wirklich Interesse dran hat, dann gibt es da ja offensichtlich einen Weg.",{"text":36418,"start":13112,"end":13202},"So und die Hürde ist, ohne das kleinreden zu wollen, ja, aber offensichtlich nicht so astronomisch hoch, wie man sich das vorstellt, sondern eher geprägt durch ehrliche Partizipation und ehrliches Interesse daran.",101,{"sentences":36421,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36432,"start":13205,"end":13334},[36422,36424,36426,36428,36430],{"text":36423,"start":13205,"end":13221},"Ja, so würde ich das auch sagen.",{"text":36425,"start":13224,"end":13237},"Für mich war das auch überraschend.",{"text":36427,"start":13237,"end":13269},"Wie gesagt, ich kannte die die Gruppe vorher, ich wusste, was sie machen.",{"text":36429,"start":13269,"end":13313},"Ich hab auch manchmal mitgefiebert auf manches Design Review, was die Tag dann bearbeitet hat.",{"text":36431,"start":13313,"end":13334},"Und da haben wir uns das interessiert durchgelesen, ne.",50,{"sentences":36434,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36283,"start":13334,"end":13509},[36435,36437,36439,36441,36443],{"text":36436,"start":13334,"end":13348},"Gucken, was schreiben die denn so.",{"text":36438,"start":13351,"end":13368},"Und ja, ich weiß auch genau, wie's war.",{"text":36440,"start":13370,"end":13403},"Es war September 20 24, wir sind grad vom Einkaufen zurückgefahren.",{"text":36442,"start":13403,"end":13488},"Ich war im im Auto, bin in Karlsruhe Südtangente gefahren, macht eine E-Mail-App auf und dann war da eine E-Mail gewesen von einem der Vorsitzenden der Tag damals.",{"text":36444,"start":13492,"end":13509},"Hat gemeint, wir suchen grad Kandidaten.",{"sentences":36446,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36457,"start":13513,"end":13630},[36447,36449,36451,36453,36455],{"text":36448,"start":13513,"end":13552},"Und als wir rumgefragt haben, ist dein Name quasi auf die Liste gekommen.",{"text":36450,"start":13556,"end":13561},"Wie sieht's aus?",{"text":36452,"start":13566,"end":13572},"Hättest Du Interesse?",{"text":36454,"start":13575,"end":13614},"Dann hab ich, ne, denkst Du so, wie kommen die bitte schön auf auf mich?",{"text":36456,"start":13614,"end":13630},"Also, weil ich stimme zu.",39,{"sentences":36459,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36470,"start":13633,"end":13838},[36460,36462,36464,36466,36468],{"text":36461,"start":13633,"end":13658},"Dort sitzen Leute von Google und von von Apple und so weiter.",{"text":36463,"start":13660,"end":13711},"Das passt jetzt hier Christian Liebe von Thinktcture aus Karlsruhe, nicht so direkt rein in die in die Reihe.",{"text":36465,"start":13714,"end":13747},"Und dann war kurz darauf war wieder son Jahresmeeting vom B3C gewesen.",{"text":36467,"start":13749,"end":13764},"Es war in LA dieses Mal.",{"text":36469,"start":13767,"end":13838},"Und ja, dann bin ich da hingeflogen, hab mich mit den Vorsitzenden unterhalten und dann sind wir gemeinsam quasi zum Fluss gekommen, dass es tatsächlich passen könnte.",76,{"sentences":36472,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36483,"start":13841,"end":14115},[36473,36475,36477,36479,36481],{"text":36474,"start":13841,"end":13897},"Also ich wurd gefragt, was meine Vision für das Web ist, ja, was ich denn glaube, in welche Richtung es sich entwickeln sollte.",{"text":36476,"start":13900,"end":13916},"Da meine Antwort drauf gegeben.",{"text":36478,"start":13916,"end":13960},"Im Prinzip hatte das auch mit Project Fugu zu tun, über das wir ja bereits gesprochen haben.",{"text":36480,"start":13960,"end":14034},"Also ich glaube halt, damit das Web Bestand hat, muss es mithalten mit der mit dem Feature Umfang von den sonstigen Plattformen, die es die es gibt.",{"text":36482,"start":14034,"end":14115},"Wenn wir stehen bleiben und es quasi nichts mehr dazu bauen, kommt halt irgendeine andere Plattform, die macht's besser und dann ist das Web weg mit all seinen positiven Eigenschaften, die es hat.",105,{"sentences":36485,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36158,"start":14117,"end":14264},[36486,36488,36490,36492,36494],{"text":36487,"start":14117,"end":14150},"Und deswegen ist es wert, sich dafür einzusetzen, dass das halt eben geschieht.",{"text":36489,"start":14153,"end":14174},"Und ja, man muss sich 1 Wahl stellen.",{"text":36491,"start":14174,"end":14223},"Und dann habe ich das gemacht im Dezember 2024, wurde dann gewählt, hab da Unterlagen zusammengestellt.",{"text":36493,"start":14227,"end":14246},"Ist im Prinzip wie in soner Art Wahlkampf.",{"text":36495,"start":14246,"end":14264},"Man muss so einen Text zusammenschreiben.",{"sentences":36497,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35691,"start":14268,"end":14375},[36498,36500,36502,36504,36506],{"text":36499,"start":14268,"end":14288},"Es gibt verschiedene Fragen, die dann eingerichtet werden.",{"text":36501,"start":14288,"end":14312},"Ich habe ein Video produziert und dann wurde gewählt.",{"text":36503,"start":14315,"end":14342},"4 Plätze waren, glaube ich, offen oder oder waren es 3?",{"text":36505,"start":14342,"end":14351},"Ich weiß nicht mehr.",{"text":36507,"start":14354,"end":14375},"Und dann hat es nicht funktioniert im ersten Durchlauf.",{"sentences":36509,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36520,"start":14378,"end":14562},[36510,36512,36514,36516,36518],{"text":36511,"start":14378,"end":14422},"Dann haben sie allerdings dankenswerterweise auch gerade in dem diesem Jahr ein Associate Programm eingeführt.",{"text":36513,"start":14425,"end":14486},"Also wo man da schon mal son bisschen reinschnuppern kann und schon sogar bei den Design Reviews mitmachen darf, die sogar schon mitschreiben darf.",{"text":36515,"start":14488,"end":14528},"Aber formal hat man kein Stimmrecht und man darf nicht zu den Face to Face Meetings kommen.",{"text":36517,"start":14530,"end":14546},"Und dann habe ich das natürlich gemacht.",{"text":36519,"start":14546,"end":14562},"Ich habe das das gerne angenommen.",69,{"sentences":36522,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36533,"start":14562,"end":14735},[36523,36525,36527,36529,36531],{"text":36524,"start":14562,"end":14571},"Ich war die 1.",{"text":36526,"start":14571,"end":14613},"Tag Associate, den es gab, hab ein Jahr die ganz reguläre Arbeit schon gemacht.",{"text":36528,"start":14613,"end":14627},"Das fand ich auch sehr cool.",{"text":36530,"start":14627,"end":14647},"Die haben mich im Prinzip auch wirklich machen lassen.",{"text":36532,"start":14650,"end":14735},"Ich habe viele Design Reviews durchgeführt, auch schon durchaus einige der kritischeren und die sind dann nicht unter meinem Namen erschienen quasi, aber wurden dann von den formalen Tech Mitgliedern veröffentlicht.",64,{"sentences":36535,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35965,"start":14738,"end":14907},[36536,36538,36540,36542],{"text":36537,"start":14738,"end":14780},"Ja, und dann war das Jahr drauf wieder eine Wahl, hab ich wieder beworben und bis jeder.",{"text":36539,"start":14780,"end":14792},"Diesmal hat's funktioniert.",{"text":36541,"start":14794,"end":14823},"Und jetzt bin ich ganz ordentliches gewähltes, reguläres Mitglied der Tag.",{"text":36543,"start":14825,"end":14907},"Was auch immer wieder zeigen soll, ist, wenn man es will und wenn man's natürlich auch ausfüllen kann, das gehört ja auch dazu, dann gibt's einen Weg, auch für den kleinen Softwareentwickler aus Karlsruhe.",{"sentences":36545,"speaker":195,"num_words":36556,"start":14909,"end":15224},[36546,36548,36550,36552,36554],{"text":36547,"start":14909,"end":14964},"Und auch wenn der Softwareentwickler aus Karlsruhe vielleicht potenziell kleiner ist, es sind ja in der Tech erst mal alle Mitglieder gleichberechtigt.",{"text":36549,"start":14968,"end":14996},"Ich war also jedes Mitglied 1 Stimme, egal wo Du irgendwie herkommst.",{"text":36551,"start":15000,"end":15085},"Wird das auch so gelebt und wahrgenommen und ausgefüllt oder wie ist das, wenn dann, weiß ich nicht, ein 1 Chrome Mensch irgend Ich kenn die Leute nicht, ne, will da niemandem zu nahe treten.",{"text":36553,"start":15085,"end":15169},"Aber wenn der jetzt ein Chrome Mensch steht und sagt so, hey, ich vertrete hier, ich weiß nicht, was Chrome fürn Share hat, mittlerweile bestimmt 80 Prozent plus irgendwie so, ne, das das Internets.",{"text":36555,"start":15173,"end":15224},"Ich ich hab hier irgendwie ein Gewicht und dann kommt der Christian aus Karlsruhe und sagt so, ja, aber ich hab auch Ideen.",126,{"sentences":36558,"speaker":195,"num_words":36565,"start":15227,"end":15387},[36559,36561,36563],{"text":36560,"start":15227,"end":15255},"So, ja, und dann sagt der Chrome, ja, ist mir doch egal.",{"text":36562,"start":15259,"end":15281},"So, also Verstehst Du, was ich mein?",{"text":36564,"start":15281,"end":15387},"Ich will da niemandem was Böses erstellen, aber ich kann mir schon vorstellen, dass allein, wo die Leute halt herkommen und mit was für 'nem Auftrag sie da quasi drin sind, das vielleicht schon einfach eine andere Wahrnehmung und Gewichtung irgendwie hat.",61,{"sentences":36567,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36533,"start":15389,"end":15563},[36568,36570,36572,36574,36576],{"text":36569,"start":15389,"end":15405},"Ja, ich verstehe, was Du meinst.",{"text":36571,"start":15408,"end":15439},"Tatsächlich ist fast son bisschen wie in 'nem politischen Gremium, sage ich mal.",{"text":36573,"start":15439,"end":15489},"Sobald Du gewählt bist, muss quasi deine Unternehmenszugehörigkeit in diesem Fall muss an der Tür liegen bleiben.",{"text":36575,"start":15492,"end":15539},"Das heißt, wenn es wenn es ums Web geht, dann kommen die Leute immer noch aus 'nem gewissen Hintergrund.",{"text":36577,"start":15539,"end":15563},"Das das ist und den streifst Du nicht ab.",{"sentences":36579,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35983,"start":15563,"end":15628},[36580],{"text":36581,"start":15563,"end":15628},"Aber Du sollst explizit nicht das als verlängerten Arm deines deines Unternehmens begreifen und soweit ich das einschätzen kann, passiert das.",{"sentences":36583,"speaker":195,"num_words":36588,"start":15631,"end":15954},[36584,36586],{"text":36585,"start":15631,"end":15819},"Auch Das heißt auch die Leute von ne, Google, Intel, Apple, keine Ahnung, die da drin sitzen, die sind auch genauso gewählt und haben nicht Also es hat nicht Google da drin einen Sitz und den besetzen sie einfach, wie sie wollen, sondern die sind halt auch in Anführungszeichen zufällig da drin, also die werden wahrscheinlich genug Ressourcen und Zeit da reinstecken, das sicherzustellen, dass sie da irgendwie immer mit drinsitzen.",{"text":36587,"start":15823,"end":15954},"Aber am Ende sind sie genauso da reingekommen wie alle anderen auch und es könnte rein theoretisch passieren, dass in der nächsten Besetzung, Wahlperiode, wie auch immer, ja, Dennis, Du kannst auch mit dabei sein, aber ich wollte sagen, so jemand wie Apple oder Google halt nicht mehr mit am Tisch sitzt.",123,{"sentences":36590,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36260,"start":15957,"end":16026},[36591,36592],{"text":3886,"start":15957,"end":15958},{"text":36593,"start":15961,"end":16026},"Natürlich ist es so, ja, wenn gewählt werden muss und Du hast da einen Stimmzettel und da steht dann, sag ich mal, Google oder Apple hinten dran, dann",{"sentences":36595,"speaker":174,"num_words":174,"start":16028,"end":16029},[36596],{"text":3886,"start":16028,"end":16029},{"sentences":36598,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35834,"start":16029,"end":16129},[36599,36601,36603,36605,36606],{"text":36600,"start":16029,"end":16047},"Weißt Du, wen würdest Du angucken?",{"text":36602,"start":16050,"end":16086},"Ja, so, weil auch hier wer kennt global gesehen quasi Think Tactre?",{"text":36604,"start":16090,"end":16105},"Wir sind Größenordnung 20 Leute.",{"text":16113,"start":16110,"end":16111},{"text":36607,"start":16115,"end":16129},"Insofern also global gesehen niemand, ja.",{"sentences":36609,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35645,"start":16132,"end":16139},[36610],{"text":36611,"start":16132,"end":16139},"Obwohl mir das",{"sentences":36613,"speaker":195,"num_words":174,"start":16139,"end":16142},[36614],{"text":15415,"start":16139,"end":16142},{"sentences":36616,"speaker":174,"num_words":36623,"start":16142,"end":16290},[36617,36619,36621],{"text":36618,"start":16142,"end":16189},"'n bisschen, ist mir fast 'n bisschen zu viel auf dieses, also vor allen Dingen auf diesem Skate.",{"text":36620,"start":16189,"end":16207},"Ich verstehe so grundsätzlich, wie ich Herkommen.",{"text":36622,"start":16207,"end":16290},"Und dann denk ich aber wiederum, es ist ja jetzt nicht so, dass sobald Du ein Google Mitarbeiter wirst, Du irgendwie sonen sone Spritze bekommst und irgendwie auf Drogen bist und auf einmal",58,{"sentences":36625,"speaker":195,"num_words":35640,"start":16292,"end":16329},[36626],{"text":36627,"start":16292,"end":16329},"Also warst Du mal aufm Google Campus, die Leute das schon Nein, nein.",{"sentences":36629,"speaker":174,"num_words":36634,"start":16333,"end":16380},[36630,36632],{"text":36631,"start":16333,"end":16358},"Ne, irgendwie anders auf einmal anders denken können oder so was.",{"text":36633,"start":16358,"end":16380},"Also ich, ne, ist jetzt überhaupt gar kein Problem.",20,{"sentences":36636,"speaker":195,"num_words":35783,"start":16384,"end":16393},[36637],{"text":36638,"start":16384,"end":16393},"Also Nein, natürlich nicht.",{"sentences":36640,"speaker":174,"num_words":35640,"start":16395,"end":16428},[36641],{"text":36642,"start":16395,"end":16428},"Es gilt von einem anderen, dass dass Christian da gleiche oder bessere Ideen.",{"sentences":36644,"speaker":195,"num_words":36649,"start":16431,"end":16575},[36645,36647],{"text":36646,"start":16431,"end":16467},"Ich weiß es gerade, aber die Leute haben ja 'n ganz anderen Interessenskonflikt auch.",{"text":36648,"start":16467,"end":16575},"Weißt Du, ich mein, wenn Du einfach für Google arbeitest und die dein Lohn und Brot irgendwie bezahlen, dann ist ja vielleicht nicht von der Hand zu weisen, dass Du vielleicht 'n Interesse daran hast, dass das Web so weiter funktioniert, dass es",57,{"sentences":36651,"speaker":174,"num_words":36658,"start":16575,"end":16664},[36652,36654,36656],{"text":36653,"start":16575,"end":16584},"für Google irgendwie funktioniert.",{"text":36655,"start":16586,"end":16594},"Ja, weiß ich nicht.",{"text":36657,"start":16596,"end":16664},"Oder einmal, Du findest das Web auch cool, aber das ist halt Google, hast dich da auskristallisiert als jemand, der intrinsisch motiviert ist und fertig.",33,{"sentences":36660,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35888,"start":16667,"end":16954},[36661,36663,36665,36667,36669],{"text":36662,"start":16667,"end":16803},"Ja, ich ich muss halt sagen, ne, wie gesagt, wenn man wählt und ich hab ja früher dann auch schon die Stimmen dafür abgegeben, ich bin quasi der Repräsentant von Thinktxure im B3C, nennt sich dann visualy Committee und die wiederum geben die Stimmen ab für diese Tagwahl beispielsweise und ich kenn das ja von mir selber.",{"text":36664,"start":16803,"end":16827},"Wen würde man denn ankreuzen auf so einem Stimmzettel?",{"text":36666,"start":16831,"end":16923},"Natürlich wählt man nach Bekanntheit, also vielleicht nicht mal die Person, weil die muss ja auch irgendwann mal kennengelernt haben und dann im Zweifel halt eher wirklich nach dem dem Firmennamen, der dann da hinten dran steht.",{"text":36668,"start":16926,"end":16937},"Genau, aber ansonsten stimmt's.",{"text":36670,"start":16941,"end":16954},"Auch die müssen quasi reingewählt werden.",{"sentences":36672,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36533,"start":16956,"end":17124},[36673,36675,36677,36679,36681],{"text":36674,"start":16956,"end":16977},"Aktuell haben wir beispielsweise keinen Microsoft Vertreter drin.",{"text":36676,"start":16977,"end":16996},"Es ist auch kein Mozilla Vertreter drin beispielsweise.",{"text":36678,"start":16996,"end":17041},"Also ist auch nicht so, dass das sein muss, dass da die großen Vendoren vertreten sind.",{"text":36680,"start":17044,"end":17078},"Genau, Mozilla beispielsweise, die haben sich jetzt auch nicht beworben aktuell einen weiteren Sitz.",{"text":36682,"start":17081,"end":17124},"Da ist grad der Vertreter jetzt im Februar dann quasi raus und ja, also auch auch das gibt's.",{"sentences":36684,"speaker":195,"num_words":36695,"start":17127,"end":17438},[36685,36687,36689,36691,36693],{"text":36686,"start":17127,"end":17156},"Und ich will das gar nicht so negativ konnotiert sind, ne.",{"text":36688,"start":17156,"end":17280},"Also ich finde das ja, kann man ja auch durchaus positiv sehen zu sagen, na ja, wenn da jemand von irgendwie Google auf der Liste steht, dann wähle ich den, weil wir haben ja alle irgendwie auch 'n Interesse, dass jemand von Google, jemand von Apple, jemand von Microsoft da mit am Tisch sitzt.",{"text":36690,"start":17280,"end":17354},"Also, ne, geht ja gar nicht darum, dass die immer nur da irgendwie Schlechtes machen sollen oder so, sondern am Ende hängt ja einfach auch viel an deren Mitwirken so.",{"text":36692,"start":17354,"end":17381},"Und von daher ist es ja gut, dass die mit dabei sind.",{"text":36694,"start":17381,"end":17438},"Ich will das, ne, nicht, dass die alle nur mit ihrer Corporate Brille da kommen, sondern Du brauchst die Leute ja auch einfach.",130,{"sentences":36697,"speaker":195,"num_words":36188,"start":17438,"end":17510},[36698,36700],{"text":36699,"start":17438,"end":17470},"Deswegen, also ehrlicherweise, als Du das grade gesagt hast, meine 1.",{"text":36701,"start":17470,"end":17510},"Reaktion war es ja voll schade, dass da niemand von Mozilla irgendwie grade dabei ist, so.",{"sentences":36703,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36338,"start":17512,"end":17594},[36704,36706],{"text":36705,"start":17512,"end":17530},"Ja, aber da gab's tatsächlich keinen Kandidaten.",{"text":36707,"start":17530,"end":17594},"Das ist dann vielleicht grad, also entweder haben sie dann grad niemanden oder es ist ihnen vielleicht grad nicht wichtig genug, ja auch die",{"sentences":36709,"speaker":195,"num_words":36712,"start":17597,"end":17651},[36710],{"text":36711,"start":17597,"end":17651},"Ja, die haben auch grad son paar Funding Probleme, bei der Mozilla Foundation muss man Vielleicht spielt das dann auch mit rein.",22,{"sentences":36714,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36120,"start":17651,"end":17855},[36715,36717,36719,36721,36723],{"text":36716,"start":17651,"end":17687},"Insofern, es gibt ja auch andere Wege, wie Browserhersteller ihre Meinungen dann kundtun können.",{"text":36718,"start":17689,"end":17745},"Gibt diese Standardpositions beispielsweise und das ist dann auch eine Möglichkeit, wie Mozilla sagen kann, das finden wir gut und das finden wir nicht gut.",{"text":36720,"start":17745,"end":17832},"Und das ist dann vielleicht sogar die ehrlichere Art und Weise, weil das halt eben dann die Standardsposition des Browsers ist und die wiederum sogar explizit nicht in der in der Tag vertreten werden.",{"text":36722,"start":17834,"end":17846},"Ich wollte noch etwas dazu sagen.",{"text":36724,"start":17846,"end":17855},"Ach so, ja.",{"sentences":36726,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36737,"start":17855,"end":18096},[36727,36729,36731,36733,36735],{"text":36728,"start":17855,"end":17913},"Ansonsten habe ich intern keine Angst mit den Google oder mit den Apple Leuten oder mit wem auch immer denen zu widersprechen.",{"text":36730,"start":17916,"end":17952},"Das tue ich durchaus und das ist in Ordnung und das ist sogar ein Asset.",{"text":36732,"start":17952,"end":18015},"Tatsächlich bin ich jetzt bei größeren Design Reviews, die schon gab, bin ich tatsächlich auch einfach dazugekommen, wenn es so härtere Konfliktlinien gab.",{"text":36734,"start":18015,"end":18077},"Und da hilft es, wenn man quasi nicht affiliate ist mit mit einem der großen Vendoren und son bisschen den Schiedsrichter spielen kann.",{"text":36736,"start":18077,"end":18096},"Das hab ich im Prinzip auch schon gemacht.",91,{"sentences":36739,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35678,"start":18096,"end":18111},[36740],{"text":36741,"start":18096,"end":18111},"Insofern hilft mir das sogar eher.",{"sentences":36743,"speaker":195,"num_words":36294,"start":18115,"end":18128},[36744],{"text":36745,"start":18115,"end":18128},"Du hast, Dennis Du auch",{"sentences":36747,"speaker":174,"num_words":36188,"start":18128,"end":18197},[36748,36750,36752],{"text":36749,"start":18128,"end":18134},"weiter dazu?",{"text":36751,"start":18137,"end":18163},"Ja, Du hast anfangs gesagt, eine Sache, dass es langsam ist.",{"text":36753,"start":18163,"end":18197},"Jetzt denk ich so, okay, es sind eigentlich nur in Anführungsstrichen 12 Leute und",{"sentences":36755,"speaker":195,"num_words":35752,"start":18197,"end":18216},[36756],{"text":36757,"start":18197,"end":18216},"ihr trefft euch, hast Du dreimal gesagt,",{"sentences":36759,"speaker":174,"num_words":36766,"start":18216,"end":18291},[36760,36762,36764],{"text":36761,"start":18216,"end":18229},"die Woche irgendwie in Meetings.",{"text":36763,"start":18232,"end":18274},"Es ist erstens nicht so wahnsinnig viele Leute und zweitens relativ häufig irgendwie, dass ihr euch trefft.",{"text":36765,"start":18278,"end":18291},"Wieso ist dann trotzdem noch langsam?",28,{"sentences":36768,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36234,"start":18294,"end":18496},[36769,36771,36773,36775,36777],{"text":36770,"start":18294,"end":18322},"Ja, weil die Standardarbeit ja quasi nicht von uns gemacht wird.",{"text":36772,"start":18322,"end":18365},"Also wir sind ein Reviewgremium, das heißt zu uns, also es gibt 2 Kernaufgaben von Attac.",{"text":36774,"start":18365,"end":18419},"Das eine ist sämtliche neuen Web Schnittstellen, die kommen oder Web Features, neue CSS Eigenschaften beispielsweise zu reviewen.",{"text":36776,"start":18423,"end":18480},"Und zum Zweiten gibt's son Dokument, son Architektur Dokument für das Web, wo das quasi dokumentiert ist, wie sollte man APIs aufbauen?",{"text":36778,"start":18480,"end":18496},"Das sind so die 2 Hauptaufgaben.",{"sentences":36780,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36791,"start":18500,"end":18696},[36781,36783,36785,36787,36789],{"text":36782,"start":18500,"end":18511},"Und die kümmern wir uns.",{"text":36784,"start":18511,"end":18541},"Das heißt, wir schauen uns APIs an, geben dann Feedback dazu.",{"text":36786,"start":18541,"end":18620},"Aber die tatsächliche Standardisierungsarbeit, die geschieht in 1 der, ich hab's übrigens nachgeschaut, 47 Working groups innerhalb des W3C und machen wir die Schleife gerade noch fertig.",{"text":36788,"start":18622,"end":18672},"Community Gruppen sind's einhundertfünfundsiebzig, also die, wo man's bisschen machen kann und Mitglieder sind aktuell 327.",{"text":36790,"start":18675,"end":18696},"So, haben wir die Zahlen auch richtig stimmt.",67,{"sentences":36793,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36804,"start":18696,"end":18845},[36794,36796,36798,36800,36802],{"text":36795,"start":18696,"end":18706},"Es ist im Prinzip.",{"text":36797,"start":18708,"end":18745},"Es sind wenige, die in der Standardisierung tätig sind und es ist eigentlich schade.",{"text":36799,"start":18748,"end":18771},"Es gibt es muss noch einen kurzen Seitenpfad aufmachen.",{"text":36801,"start":18774,"end":18816},"In unserem Architekturdokument, das ich gerade erwähnt habe, gibt's eine 1 klare Priorisierung Abfolge.",{"text":36803,"start":18819,"end":18845},"Also wenn wir Standardisierungen machen, für wen machen wir es zuerst?",52,{"sentences":36806,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36813,"start":18848,"end":19064},[36807,36809,36811],{"text":36808,"start":18848,"end":18920},"Und die Reihenfolge ist zuerst für den Nutzer, dann für Webentwickler, dann für Browser Hersteller, dann für Spezifikationsautoren und dann für die akademische Schönheit quasi.",{"text":36810,"start":18923,"end":18983},"Das ist die Priorisierung Abfolge und Nutzer und Webentwickler stehen ganz am Anfang, noch bevor dieventur ankommt, noch bevor das Backautor selber kommt.",{"text":36812,"start":18987,"end":19064},"Und deswegen ist es wichtig und explizit gewünscht, dass Leute mit uns interagieren, dass wir ihre Stimme hören und das halt eben dann auch entsprechend einarbeiten können, ja, in die Standardisierungsarbeit.",79,{"sentences":36815,"speaker":195,"num_words":36419,"start":19067,"end":19326},[36816,36818],{"text":36817,"start":19067,"end":19174},"Und wenn Du sagst, lasst es halt 'n bisschen langsam und das dreht halt son paar Schleifen und dann kommt das vielleicht wieder zu euch an 'nem zweiten, dritten, vierten Beruf, über was für 'n Zeithorizont reden wir denn denn da?",{"text":36819,"start":19174,"end":19326},"Also was sind denn so die Standards, die ihr so zuletzt abgesegnet habt, final, ja, die wir jetzt vielleicht auch schon kennen, weil sie schon öffentlich sind und und und und fertig so und was sind so die Themen, an denen ihr jetzt grade arbeitet und wann glaubst Du, seid ihr damit fertig oder seid ihr die Autoren damit fertig?",{"sentences":36821,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36649,"start":19329,"end":19478},[36822,36824,36826,36828,36830],{"text":36823,"start":19329,"end":19363},"Gibt da eine relativ große Spannbreite, so manche Features, die sind halt klein.",{"text":36825,"start":19363,"end":19427},"Ja, das ist halt irgend eine, was weiß ich, CSS Verbesserung, die die cool ist und die man haben will, die winkt man durch.",{"text":36827,"start":19427,"end":19462},"Ja, und so was geht wahrscheinlich innerhalb von 'nem Jahr so über die die Bühne.",{"text":36829,"start":19462,"end":19471},"Also so Endspiel.",{"text":36831,"start":19471,"end":19478},"3 Features.",{"sentences":36833,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36842,"start":19481,"end":19547},[36834,36836,36837,36838,36840],{"text":36835,"start":19481,"end":19485},"Ja und?",{"text":19489,"start":19485,"end":19488},{"text":19494,"start":19491,"end":19492},{"text":36839,"start":19492,"end":19522},"Und dann kann das nach oben ist dann im Prinzip keine Grenzenhaufen.",{"text":36841,"start":19522,"end":19547},"5 Jahre ist, glaube ich, ein guter, ungefährer Zeitraum.",25,{"sentences":36844,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35861,"start":19550,"end":19695},[36845,36847,36849,36851,36853],{"text":36846,"start":19550,"end":19576},"Jetzt kann man zum Beispiel gerade die die prompt API nehmen.",{"text":36848,"start":19576,"end":19610},"Das ist ein Beispiel, wo man sich auch wirklich, wo viel diskutiert werden muss.",{"text":36850,"start":19612,"end":19635},"Die der Zugriff erlaubt auf ein Language Model.",{"text":36852,"start":19635,"end":19675},"Was ist eine Language Model API und aktuell liegt es quasi auf deinem eigenen Browser Home.",{"text":36854,"start":19679,"end":19695},"Und jetzt gibt's dazu alle möglichen Diskussionspunkte.",{"sentences":36856,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35733,"start":19699,"end":19811},[36857,36859,36861,36863,36865],{"text":36858,"start":19699,"end":19732},"Es wird aktuell implementiert von Chrome, das geshept jetzt auch und Edge beispielsweise.",{"text":36860,"start":19734,"end":19748},"Die haben aber unterschiedliche Modelle hinten dran.",{"text":36862,"start":19748,"end":19766},"Das heißt, es kann Interoperabilitätsprobleme geben.",{"text":36864,"start":19766,"end":19795},"Du kannst aber nicht gucken, was für ein Modell ist es denn?",{"text":36866,"start":19798,"end":19811},"Also von der API Stelle her.",{"sentences":36868,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36791,"start":19814,"end":19994},[36869,36871,36873,36875,36877],{"text":36870,"start":19814,"end":19838},"Dann ist die Apple Rückmeldung finden wir nicht gut.",{"text":36872,"start":19840,"end":19856},"Zum Beispiel gerade wegen der Interoperabilitätssachen.",{"text":36874,"start":19860,"end":19886},"Also kann es sein, dass der dass die Schnittstelle krummium only bleibt.",{"text":36876,"start":19889,"end":19946},"Es kann sein, dass der Ansatz cool ist, sich ausbreitet oder man sagt, das ist eine Sackgasse, machen wir lieber ganz anders.",{"text":36878,"start":19946,"end":19994},"Es gibt zum Beispiel auch WebNN, ist eine andere Schnittstelle, wo man Modelle lokal im Browser betreiben kann.",{"sentences":36880,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35861,"start":19997,"end":20149},[36881,36883,36885,36887,36889],{"text":36882,"start":19997,"end":20009},"Muss das Modell selber mitbringen.",{"text":36884,"start":20012,"end":20062},"Hat den Vorteil, Du weißt genau, mit welchem Modell Du redest, hat den Nachteil, Du musst es erst runterladen.",{"text":36886,"start":20065,"end":20126},"Und so hat man quasi bis am Ende erst ein magisches Dreieck vor dir und muss gucken, ja, was ist denn jetzt der richtige Ansatz?",{"text":36888,"start":20129,"end":20134},"Sind's alle?",{"text":36890,"start":20134,"end":20149},"Ist es nur 1 davon?",{"sentences":36892,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36283,"start":20152,"end":20309},[36893,36895,36897,36899,36901],{"text":36894,"start":20152,"end":20179},"Gibt manchmal gibt's auch keine Lösung, weil wir ja keine Glaskugel haben.",{"text":36896,"start":20182,"end":20198},"Manchmal weiß es erst aus der Rückschau.",{"text":36898,"start":20202,"end":20262},"Weiteres Beispiel Es gab mal den Gedanken, ob man JQUERY nicht einfach mit dem Browser shippt, weil das jede Website nutzt.",{"text":36900,"start":20265,"end":20293},"Ja, in der Rückschau sehr gut, dass wir es nicht gemacht haben.",{"text":36902,"start":20293,"end":20309},"Ja, das ist jetzt immer das Problem.",{"sentences":36904,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36008,"start":20309,"end":20425},[36905,36907,36909,36911,36913],{"text":36906,"start":20309,"end":20345},"Wenn einmal was im Web ist, Teil der Plattform ist, dann ist es das in aller Regel.",{"text":36908,"start":20345,"end":20360},"Es gibt Ausnahmen für immer.",{"text":36910,"start":20363,"end":20383},"Ja, die Webseite von 94 funktioniert heute noch.",{"text":36912,"start":20383,"end":20407},"Die sieht heute noch genauso aus wie vor über 30 Jahren.",{"text":36914,"start":20410,"end":20425},"Und das ist ja immer der Anspruch.",{"sentences":36916,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36338,"start":20425,"end":20507},[36917,36919],{"text":36918,"start":20425,"end":20482},"Sobald es einmal Teil der Plattform ist, ist es das für den Rest der Zeit und insofern, ja, muss man halt vorsichtig sein.",{"text":36920,"start":20482,"end":20507},"Und deswegen darf auch son Experimentierzyklus länger dauern.",{"sentences":36922,"speaker":195,"num_words":35875,"start":20510,"end":20598},[36923,36925],{"text":36924,"start":20510,"end":20559},"Und was sind denn, also Du hast jetzt diese AI Themen schon so angesprochen, die sind ja sehr neu.",{"text":36926,"start":20559,"end":20598},"So, also da da, ne, das ist ja keine Iteration aufm bestehendes Browser Feature oder",{"sentences":36928,"speaker":1580,"num_words":193,"start":20600,"end":20626},[36929,36931],{"text":36930,"start":20600,"end":20605},"Richtig, ja.",{"text":36932,"start":20607,"end":20626},"Neu und Fehlt da so das",{"sentences":36934,"speaker":195,"num_words":36253,"start":20626,"end":20757},[36935,36937,36939,36941],{"text":36936,"start":20626,"end":20643},"das Analog son bisschen dazu vielleicht.",{"text":36938,"start":20647,"end":20681},"Und was sind denn so so Feature Iterationen, an denen ihr grade dransitzt?",{"text":36940,"start":20685,"end":20754},"Also wo's jetzt nicht darum geht, ne, eine komplett neue Cafability zu schauen, sondern eher so, wir arbeiten grade an, ne, sowas wie halt HTML in Canvas oder so.",{"text":12625,"start":20756,"end":20757},{"sentences":36943,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36954,"start":20760,"end":20923},[36944,36946,36948,36950,36952],{"text":36945,"start":20760,"end":20800},"Also Webspeech fällt mir jetzt grade ein, aber ich kann auch gleich gern mal eine Liste aufmachen.",{"text":36947,"start":20803,"end":20840},"Webspeech ist gibt's ja schon und kann man oder auch hier ist die gleiche Sache.",{"text":36949,"start":20840,"end":20850},"Aktuell funktioniert das so.",{"text":36951,"start":20852,"end":20891},"Das ist für die Spracherkennung, dass Du quasi den Sprach Feed gegen die Cloud schickst.",{"text":36953,"start":20891,"end":20923},"Und dann wird das quasi transkribiert und kommt quasi als Ergebnis zurück.",63,{"sentences":36956,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36234,"start":20926,"end":21119},[36957,36959,36961,36963,36965],{"text":36958,"start":20926,"end":20946},"Und die Idee ist, wir würden das gerne lokal machen.",{"text":36960,"start":20946,"end":20959},"Also ist hier eine Iteration.",{"text":36962,"start":20962,"end":21020},"Die Webspeech API ist keine Ahnung wie alt, sehr alt und bekommt jetzt retro fitted quasi diese Möglichkeit zur lokalen Verarbeitung mit dazu.",{"text":36964,"start":21020,"end":21082},"Das wär jetzt 'n Beispiel für eine immer noch Zusammenhang, aber für quasi eine rückwirkende Anpassung von einem von so 1 API.",{"text":36966,"start":21086,"end":21119},"Ich mache kaum unsere Review Liste auf WebMC fällt mir direkt noch ein.",{"sentences":36968,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36973,"start":21119,"end":21163},[36969,36971],{"text":36970,"start":21119,"end":21150},"Das wird auch gerade diskutiert, dass zum Beispiel auch Chromium dafür.",{"text":36972,"start":21154,"end":21163},"Auch bei uns hart",15,{"sentences":36975,"speaker":195,"num_words":35640,"start":21163,"end":21198},[36976,36978],{"text":36977,"start":21163,"end":21177},"das Projekt in der Programmierbar.",{"text":36979,"start":21180,"end":21198},"Gibt da jemanden, der glaubt da nicht dran?",{"sentences":36981,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36804,"start":21202,"end":21345},[36982,36984,36986,36988,36990],{"text":36983,"start":21202,"end":21211},"Okay, ja, wunderbar.",{"text":36985,"start":21214,"end":21227},"Und das ist weiter willkommen.",{"text":36987,"start":21230,"end":21240},"Willkommen in meiner Welt.",{"text":36989,"start":21244,"end":21301},"Denn es muss im Prinzip dir beide Seiten anhören und muss dann am Ende, das ist nämlich immer so das Ziel der Tag.",{"text":36991,"start":21303,"end":21345},"Im Idealfall müssen wir auf eine auf ein Ergebnis kommen, auf eine Resolution Finden wir das gut?",{"sentences":36993,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36253,"start":21348,"end":21477},[36994,36996,36998,37000,37002],{"text":36995,"start":21348,"end":21367},"Heißt es dann, haben wir da Bedenken?",{"text":36997,"start":21371,"end":21382},"Oder sind wir dagegen?",{"text":36999,"start":21386,"end":21411},"So, und da müssen wir uns auf all diese verschiedenen Seiten hören.",{"text":37001,"start":21414,"end":21439},"Ich kenne zum Beispiel auch die die Gegenseite von von WebMCP.",{"text":37003,"start":21443,"end":21477},"Das sind auch Argumente, dabei die stimmen und dann müssen wir auf ein Ergebnis kommen.",{"sentences":37005,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35976,"start":21477,"end":21673},[37006,37008,37010,37012],{"text":37007,"start":21477,"end":21515},"WebMCP beispielsweise werde ich reviewen und dann muss am Ende wird ein Wörtchen dastehen.",{"text":37009,"start":21515,"end":21568},"Ja, und was das ist, wir haben jetzt noch nicht angefangen, aber das wird dann wird dann kommen und das wird spannend.",{"text":37011,"start":21572,"end":21655},"Quasi sich all die Argumente anzuhören und dann zu überlegen, okay, ist es fürs Web jetzt in Summe gut, in Summe schlecht, überwiegen die Vorteile, den die Nachteile und so weiter.",{"text":37013,"start":21657,"end":21673},"Das ist zum Beispiel ein so ein Fall.",{"sentences":37015,"speaker":195,"num_words":35640,"start":21676,"end":21704},[37016],{"text":37017,"start":21676,"end":21704},"Da sollten wir, wenn das fertig ist, noch mal eine Folge zu machen.",{"sentences":37019,"speaker":1580,"num_words":37030,"start":21706,"end":21939},[37020,37022,37024,37026,37028],{"text":37021,"start":21706,"end":21715},"Ja, auf jeden Fall.",{"text":37023,"start":21715,"end":21761},"Es ist also auf der anderen Seite aber auch mega der Hype, ja, kann ich kann ich auch sagen.",{"text":37025,"start":21763,"end":21794},"Hat hat eine Riesentraktion, löst auch reale Probleme, die es halt gibt.",{"text":37027,"start":21794,"end":21857},"Ja, die aktuellen Agenic Browser sind halt vor allem sehr langsam, also halt den Aufbau der Seite erst verstehen müssen und Screenshot machen.",{"text":37029,"start":21859,"end":21939},"Und da gibt halt Web MCP als programmatischer Weg die Tools, die die Seite bietet mit 'ner Schema Definition von außen aufrufen zu können, mega, den Shortcut, ne?",86,{"sentences":37032,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35842,"start":21939,"end":21968},[37033],{"text":37034,"start":21939,"end":21968},"Das würde die Erfahrung von argentischem Brosing erheblich verbessern.",{"sentences":37036,"speaker":174,"num_words":35645,"start":21971,"end":21977},[37037],{"text":37038,"start":21971,"end":21977},"Jetzt hast Du",{"sentences":37040,"speaker":195,"num_words":36623,"start":21977,"end":22125},[37041,37043,37045,37047,37049],{"text":37042,"start":21977,"end":21988},"ja vorhin gesagt Bitte.",{"text":37044,"start":21991,"end":22040},"Das das Entscheidende oder das Allererste auf eurer Prioritätenliste ist so für die Nutzer und Nutzerinnen, ja.",{"text":37046,"start":22042,"end":22097},"Und wenn wenn wir hier so diskutieren, dann diskutieren wir schon so aus sonem sehr technischen Level und was was wir davon halten als Entwickler.",{"text":37048,"start":22097,"end":22123},"Wir sind ja nur auf Nummer 2 auf eurer Liste so.",{"text":3886,"start":22123,"end":22125},{"sentences":37051,"speaker":195,"num_words":36372,"start":22127,"end":22315},[37052,37054,37056,37058],{"text":37053,"start":22127,"end":22201},"Wie findet ihr denn in soner Diskussion die die Nutzerinnenperspektive, weil die meisten oder wahrscheinlich alle von euch sind ja eher, kommen ja eher aus der technischen Ecke, so, ja.",{"text":37055,"start":22204,"end":22222},"Und wie macht ihr da, gibt's da Umfragen?",{"text":37057,"start":22225,"end":22256},"Gibt's da so Panels oder versucht ihr euch einfach da selber so hineinzuversetzen?",{"text":37059,"start":22260,"end":22315},"Wie kommt quasi der der Blickwinkel der Endnutzerin, der für euch ja offensichtlich ganz oben steht, wie kommt der in diese Diskussion rein?",{"sentences":37061,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35715,"start":22318,"end":22475},[37062,37064,37066,37068,37070],{"text":37063,"start":22318,"end":22391},"Ja, ich fang mal mit dem schwächeren Argument an, mit dem schwächeren Punkt, nämlich dass wir alle ja zugleich auch Nutzer sind, also Du kannst schon mal bei dir selber anfangen.",{"text":37065,"start":22391,"end":22407},"Also was fände ich denn gut?",{"text":37067,"start":22409,"end":22420},"Fehlt mir eine API im Web?",{"text":37069,"start":22420,"end":22450},"Was ist mein Enduser Benefit, den ich ja davon bekomme?",{"text":37071,"start":22454,"end":22475},"Das ist jetzt, wie gesagt, die der schwache 1.",{"sentences":37073,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36145,"start":22475,"end":22620},[37074,37075,37077,37079,37080],{"text":10505,"start":22475,"end":22477},{"text":37076,"start":22477,"end":22487},"Der Stärkere 2.",{"text":37078,"start":22487,"end":22583},"Ist, dass es oftmals ja User Research gibt als Teil des Standardisierungsprozesses, wo es dann Umfragen gibt, also wo tatsächlich das User Research auch durchgeführt wird, halt eben herauszufinden, ist das jetzt was, was gebraucht wird?",{"text":12629,"start":22588,"end":22589},{"text":37081,"start":22591,"end":22620},"Das ist dann vielleicht eher das, was dann hier auch dem näher kommt.",{"sentences":37083,"speaker":195,"num_words":36419,"start":22623,"end":22859},[37084,37086,37088],{"text":37085,"start":22623,"end":22716},"Ja, also ich wollte dir da gar nicht zu nahe gehen oder nicht sagen, dass der das nicht kann, aber ich stell mir das halt schon teilweise auch schwierig vor, weil man selbst ist ja immer son bisschen biased dann so, ne.",{"text":37087,"start":22716,"end":22824},"Und man ist ja als Selbst, wenn Du hast vollkommen recht, wir sind alle auch Nutzer und Nutzerinnen, aber ich würde nicht sagen, dass wir repräsentativ sind für die Art und Weise, wie der Großteil der Menschen da draußen das Web halt benutzt und versteht.",{"text":37089,"start":22827,"end":22859},"Und das ist ja dann immer so dieser Disconnect, den man irgendwie überbrücken muss.",{"sentences":37091,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35818,"start":22861,"end":23142},[37092,37093,37095,37097,37099],{"text":22865,"start":22861,"end":22862},{"text":37094,"start":22862,"end":22871},"Und das stimmt.",{"text":37096,"start":22871,"end":22898},"Also diese Bios existieren ja in in jederlei Hinsicht.",{"text":37098,"start":22898,"end":23105},"Ich bin jetzt ja auch Entwickler und kein Wendler, ja, das sind die wiederum, die werden dort haben andere Sicht wieder was Entwickler sind, ja und was die denn brauchen und aber das ist exakt die Idee, ja, deswegen, Du hast am Anfang angesprochen, deswegen gehe ich auch auf Konferenzen weltweit, weil das ja das World Wide Web ist und ich deswegen auch hören möchte, was Entwicklerinnen und Entwickler und Nutzerinnen Nutzer weltweit dann zu sagen haben und was die über das Web denken.",{"text":37100,"start":23108,"end":23142},"Und jo, damit versuchen wir auch son bissel, 'n Feedbackkanal zu bekommen.",{"sentences":37102,"speaker":1580,"num_words":37030,"start":23144,"end":23394},[37103,37105,37107,37109,37111],{"text":37104,"start":23144,"end":23181},"Weitere weiteres Beispiel vielleicht noch für eine kontroversere API ist die Digital Credentials API.",{"text":37106,"start":23183,"end":23198},"Kommt, gibt's in USA schon.",{"text":37108,"start":23198,"end":23289},"In der EU wird grade, dass dass die ALDI Wallets diskutiert, also die Möglichkeit, seinen Personalausweis in die Wallet des Gerätes hochzuladen, dass Du dann digitalen ja, Perso hast.",{"text":37110,"start":23293,"end":23340},"Ist eine coole Sache und die Digital Credentials API gibt dann quasi Webseiten Zugriff auf besagten Personalausweis in der Wallet.",{"text":37112,"start":23343,"end":23394},"Das ist dann wieder eine mindestens diskutierwürdige Sache, weil das in alle möglichen Richtungen missbräuchlich verwendet werden kann.",{"sentences":37114,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36813,"start":23394,"end":23603},[37115,37117,37119],{"text":37116,"start":23394,"end":23468},"Denn alles, was wir im Web an Fähigkeiten anbieten, alles, was wir Entwicklern zur Verfügung stellen, kann halt auch wieder genutzt werden von Leuten, die es nicht so gut meinen.",{"text":37118,"start":23471,"end":23522},"Und wenn das jetzt sehr einfach wird, auf Identitätsdaten zuzugreifen, dann kann man sich schon denken, was passieren wird.",{"text":37120,"start":23524,"end":23603},"Ja, das so eine Werbeanzeige oder Fake Download Button und dann heißt, wenn Du diese App runterladen willst, dann gib mir doch bitte mal deinen Namen und deine Anschrift beispielsweise.",{"sentences":37122,"speaker":195,"num_words":35645,"start":23605,"end":23611},[37123],{"text":37124,"start":23605,"end":23611},"Kann man dann",{"sentences":37126,"speaker":1580,"num_words":37137,"start":23611,"end":23718},[37127,37129,37131,37133,37135],{"text":37128,"start":23611,"end":23648},"auch nutzen, Altersprüfung im Web umzusetzen, dass quasi die Seite selber prüft.",{"text":37130,"start":23651,"end":23690},"Sag mal dein Ausweis, ja, ist auch schon Media Verbot, wird beispielsweise diskutiert.",{"text":37132,"start":23690,"end":23704},"Auch gerade ließe sich damit umsetzen.",{"text":37134,"start":23707,"end":23712},"Ist es gut?",{"text":37136,"start":23712,"end":23718},"Ist es schlecht?",37,{"sentences":37139,"speaker":1580,"num_words":37150,"start":23721,"end":23808},[37140,37142,37144,37146,37148],{"text":37141,"start":23721,"end":23727},"Ist das Zensur?",{"text":37143,"start":23727,"end":23736},"Ist es valide?",{"text":37145,"start":23736,"end":23745},"Ist es legitim?",{"text":37147,"start":23748,"end":23776},"Teilweise ist ist die Diskussion auch größer als halt nur das Web.",{"text":37149,"start":23776,"end":23808},"Teilweise müssen die Diskussionen halt Gesellschaften und Länder unter sich führen.",32,{"sentences":37152,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35640,"start":23811,"end":23841},[37153],{"text":37154,"start":23811,"end":23841},"Aber das wär noch 'n weiteres Beispiel, was auch eine gesellschaftliche Relevanz hat.",{"sentences":37156,"speaker":195,"num_words":35976,"start":23844,"end":24049},[37157,37159,37161],{"text":37158,"start":23844,"end":23850},"Super, superspannend.",{"text":37160,"start":23854,"end":23960},"Wenn Du, losgelöst von dem, woran ihr jetzt grade konkret arbeitet, so über das w 3 c und tt ag nachdenkst, was sind so ein, 2 Sachen, von denen Du denkst, die funktionieren jetzt schon sehr gut strukturell, organisatorisch?",{"text":37162,"start":23960,"end":24049},"Und was sind so vielleicht ein, 2 Sachen, wo Du sagst so, boah, wenn ich hier einen Wunsch frei hätte, dann würde ich das grundlegend ändern, diese Regel einführen, diese Regel abschaffen, keine Ahnung.",{"sentences":37164,"speaker":1580,"num_words":37175,"start":24053,"end":24275},[37165,37167,37169,37171,37173],{"text":37166,"start":24053,"end":24076},"Ich glaub, da habe ich keine direkte Antwort tatsächlich.",{"text":37168,"start":24076,"end":24143},"Ich bin ja quasi formal erst seit Februar dabei mit dem Associate, quasi so anderthalb Jahre Und ich lerne halt noch und ich schaue mir das noch an.",{"text":37170,"start":24145,"end":24203},"Aktuell habe ich keinen wirklichen Änderungsvorschlag, wie es besser machen könnte, ohne die Grundzüge des Web infrage zu stellen im Prinzip.",{"text":37172,"start":24205,"end":24233},"Wie gesagt, so was wie Konsensfindung ist langsam und ist anstrengend.",{"text":37174,"start":24236,"end":24275},"Manchmal brauchst Du 5 Meetings, zum Ergebnis zu kommen, was am Anfang eigentlich schon absehbar war.",85,{"sentences":37177,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36804,"start":24278,"end":24410},[37178,37180,37182,37184,37186],{"text":37179,"start":24278,"end":24330},"Ja, und mit allem, was man kennt, wo dann quasi alles schon gesagt wurde und nur noch nicht von jedem.",{"text":37181,"start":24330,"end":24350},"Also so was, das kommt dann durchaus auch vor.",{"text":37183,"start":24353,"end":24364},"Das macht's langsam und anstrengend.",{"text":37185,"start":24364,"end":24377},"Will ich deswegen einstellen wollen.",{"text":37187,"start":24380,"end":24410},"Ich glaube nicht, es geht dann sogar auf andere Bereiche des Lebens über.",{"sentences":37189,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36372,"start":24413,"end":24610},[37190,37192,37194,37196,37198],{"text":37191,"start":24413,"end":24484},"Also wenn ich dann privat irgendwas organisiere, beispielsweise ist mir Konsens viel wichtiger, als dass da auf einmal so das ja, aber 5 von 9 waren dafür.",{"text":37193,"start":24486,"end":24503},"Also das ist auch das ist sone Kultursachen.",{"text":37195,"start":24506,"end":24527},"Und klar, ich mein auch noch mal die Kulturfrage.",{"text":37197,"start":24531,"end":24560},"Es ist ein World Wide Web, Du hast alle möglichen Kulturen da drin.",{"text":37199,"start":24563,"end":24610},"Und jo, ich glaube insofern ist das Vorgehen, soweit ich sehe, richtig oder ich hätte keinen konkreten",{"sentences":37201,"speaker":195,"num_words":36634,"start":24612,"end":24663},[37202,37204],{"text":37203,"start":24612,"end":24635},"Ich mein, das ist ja 'n positiver Indikator, ne.",{"text":37205,"start":24635,"end":24663},"Also ich mein, wenn's jetzt was wirklich Schlimmes wär, was dir",{"sentences":37207,"speaker":1580,"num_words":37210,"start":24663,"end":24704},[37208],{"text":37209,"start":24663,"end":24704},"schon in den ersten paar Monaten aufgefallen wäre, dann wär's ja nur 'n umso stärkerer Indikator",16,{"sentences":37212,"speaker":195,"num_words":36565,"start":24704,"end":24847},[37213,37215,37217,37219],{"text":37214,"start":24704,"end":24743},"sozusagen, ja, wenn wir jetzt sagen, ja nur 'n umso stärkerer Indikator sozusagen, ja.",{"text":37216,"start":24743,"end":24786},"Wenn man jetzt sagt, es gibt erst mal per se nix, ist das ja auch kein kein schlechtes Zeichen.",{"text":37218,"start":24786,"end":24832},"So, wir haben gar nicht darüber gesprochen, weil Du grad gesagt hast, Du bist ja erst seit 'n paar Monaten dabei.",{"text":37220,"start":24832,"end":24847},"Für wie lange wird man da reingewählt?",{"sentences":37222,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36094,"start":24851,"end":25060},[37223,37225,37227,37229,37231],{"text":37224,"start":24851,"end":24876},"Es sind 2 Jahre und widerwahl im Prinzip unbegrenzt möglich.",{"text":37226,"start":24879,"end":24896},"Das ist auch die Komposition ganz schön.",{"text":37228,"start":24896,"end":24963},"Wir haben Leute, die beides auch schon viele, viele, viele Jahre sind und dann manche sind jetzt eben ganz frisch mit dabei und auch das ist eine coole Sache.",{"text":37230,"start":24965,"end":25000},"Denn auch hier Software Architekt bin ich auch schon lang gewesen von Beruf her.",{"text":37232,"start":25000,"end":25060},"Es ist aber auch noch mal was anderes, wie dann Browserarchitektur ist, die ich nicht kenne, weil ich halt quasi kein Browserentwickler bin.",{"sentences":37234,"speaker":1580,"num_words":37243,"start":25063,"end":25314},[37235,37237,37239,37241],{"text":37236,"start":25063,"end":25125},"Und ja, das sind halt Dinge, die man sich dann halt erst drauf schaffen muss mit der Zeit und wo man den Input braucht von Browser Herstellern.",{"text":37238,"start":25128,"end":25233},"Denn darf man auch nicht vergessen bei allem, auch wenn dann quasi die Hersteller hinter uns dann noch mal stehen, hinter den Entwicklerinnen und Entwicklern, am Ende zahlen die das, zahlen die die Browserentwicklung und die ist sehr, sehr, sehr teuer.",{"text":37240,"start":25237,"end":25287},"Und wir nutzen die Produkte alle for free und darf man auch nicht vergessen quasi in der in dem Zusammenspiel.",{"text":37242,"start":25290,"end":25314},"Hab mal die Zeit, wo wir bezahlt haben für die Browser noch.",100,{"sentences":37245,"speaker":195,"num_words":37248,"start":25316,"end":25350},[37246],{"text":37247,"start":25316,"end":25350},"Ich würd überhaupt nicht bezahlen auch heute noch dafür, aber das ist, glaub ich,",14,{"sentences":37250,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35663,"start":25350,"end":25380},[37251,37253,37255,37256,37257],{"text":37252,"start":25350,"end":25357},"eine andere Diskussion.",{"text":37254,"start":25360,"end":25372},"Auf eine andere Art, genau.",{"text":3886,"start":25372,"end":25374},{"text":3886,"start":25374,"end":25377},{"text":22865,"start":25379,"end":25380},{"sentences":37259,"speaker":195,"num_words":35861,"start":25382,"end":25523},[37260,37262,37263,37265],{"text":37261,"start":25382,"end":25417},"Also ich glaub, Apple nagt nicht am Hungertuch, nur weil sie Safari bezahlen müssen.",{"text":25423,"start":25420,"end":25421},{"text":37264,"start":25421,"end":25457},"Aber ja, also Du hast natürlich vollkommen recht, das ist 'n sehr anderes Modell, so.",{"text":37266,"start":25457,"end":25523},"Und sie sind jetzt nicht unbedingt hart oder sie müssten nicht hart darauf incentivet sein, da so viel Zeit und Energie reinzustecken, wie sie grade machen.",{"sentences":37268,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36804,"start":25523,"end":25663},[37269,37271],{"text":37270,"start":25523,"end":25603},"Ja, und wir haben die die Alternative gesehen, ja, weil sich an die IE 6 Seiten erinnert, ja, oder son bisschen kurz davor, diese Seite ist optimiert für, ja.",{"text":37272,"start":25605,"end":25663},"Wir wollen, glaube ich, nicht zurück in eine Welt, wo sich die, wenn Du dann nicht an einem Tisch sitzen, sitzt Aber weggucken.",{"sentences":37274,"speaker":195,"num_words":37285,"start":25667,"end":25911},[37275,37277,37279,37281,37283],{"text":37276,"start":25667,"end":25687},"Aber Du fühlst Silver da teilweise schon wieder.",{"text":37278,"start":25690,"end":25732},"Also es ist mir jetzt schon 'n paarmal in den letzten Monaten begegnet, dass ich eine Seite aufmacht.",{"text":37280,"start":25732,"end":25819},"Die Seite, die wir jetzt gerade aufhaben, diesen Podcast aufzuzeichnen, hier, Riverside, wenn Du die 'n Safari aufmachst oder 'n Firefox, dann sagt er dir auch erst mal, boah, willst Du nicht Chrome runterladen?",{"text":37282,"start":25819,"end":25837},"Die funktionier viel besser mit Chrome, so, ja?",{"text":37284,"start":25837,"end":25911},"Es ist nicht ganz so schlimm wie früher, dass dann alles blockiert und kaputtgeht oder so, aber es ist schon son Nudge, wo ich mir denk, wir waren schon mal weiter.",99,{"sentences":37287,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36283,"start":25913,"end":26063},[37288,37290,37292,37294,37296],{"text":37289,"start":25913,"end":25926},"Das stimmt, kann ich nachvollziehen.",{"text":37291,"start":25929,"end":25955},"Ich glaube, dass es sich an manchen Fronten aber auch verbessert.",{"text":37293,"start":25958,"end":25985},"Also das WebGPU beispielsweise ist es auch in in Safari gesipped.",{"text":37295,"start":25985,"end":26010},"Also Möglichkeit, Low Level mit der Grafikkarte zu sprechen.",{"text":37297,"start":26012,"end":26063},"Web Serial API ist jetzt nach Jahren, ich glaub, es sind 10 Jahre oder so was, ich glaub, 20 13 war der 1.",{"sentences":37299,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36359,"start":26063,"end":26244},[37300,37302,37304,37306],{"text":37301,"start":26063,"end":26081},"Commit, ist jetzt in Firefox geshappt.",{"text":37303,"start":26085,"end":26149},"Das heißt, nach gar Ahnung, was weiß ich, was noch nie vielen Jahren nach 'ner Dekade hat es diese Schnittstelle auch in Firefox quasi geschafft.",{"text":37305,"start":26152,"end":26220},"Also ich höre schon, dass und auch hier ist er wieder Nutzerfeedback, Entwicklerfeedback wichtig und gut und führt auch zu einem Umdenken, sagen wir's so.",{"text":37307,"start":26220,"end":26244},"Weil niemand will, ne, auch die Browsersteller wollen solche Seiten",{"sentences":37309,"speaker":195,"num_words":35691,"start":26246,"end":26359},[37310,37312,37314],{"text":37311,"start":26246,"end":26262},"nicht sehen, die sagen, nur zu Chrome.",{"text":37313,"start":26262,"end":26277},"Das ist nicht, wo wir hinwollen.",{"text":37315,"start":26277,"end":26359},"Was ist dein Take, wir hatten da vor Ewigkeiten meine News Folge, glaube ich, drüber diskutiert, als es wie heißt dieser Browser von den OpenAI hat, Commitment, nee.",{"sentences":37317,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35678,"start":26359,"end":26380},[37318,37320,37322],{"text":37319,"start":26359,"end":26365},"Commitment, ja.",{"text":37321,"start":26365,"end":26371},"Nee, Atlas.",{"text":37323,"start":26375,"end":26380},"Atlasity hat's.",{"sentences":37325,"speaker":195,"num_words":37328,"start":26380,"end":26433},[37326],{"text":37327,"start":26380,"end":26433},"Also, genau, als es die beiden ging und dieses kleine Start-up, was grade versucht, sone Browser Engine komplett neu,",19,{"sentences":37330,"speaker":1580,"num_words":1580,"start":26438,"end":26444},[37331],{"text":37332,"start":26438,"end":26444},"Servo, Ladybird.",{"sentences":37334,"speaker":195,"num_words":35783,"start":26447,"end":26459},[37335,37337],{"text":37336,"start":26447,"end":26453},"Ladybird, genau.",{"text":37338,"start":26453,"end":26459},"Ja, Ladybird.",{"sentences":37340,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36294,"start":26459,"end":26471},[37341],{"text":37342,"start":26459,"end":26471},"Ja klar, Servo ist ja.",{"sentences":37344,"speaker":195,"num_words":35770,"start":26471,"end":26663},[37345,37347,37349,37351,37353],{"text":37346,"start":26471,"end":26491},"Wie wie realistisch schätzt Du das ein?",{"text":37348,"start":26491,"end":26522},"Weil wir haben da auch in dieser Folge son bisschen hin- und her diskutiert.",{"text":37350,"start":26524,"end":26573},"Und wie Du sagst, ne, wir sind alle groß geworden in der Zeit, wo's tatsächlich ab und zu noch mal andere Browser gab.",{"text":37352,"start":26573,"end":26633},"Also ich kann mich erinnern, als Oprah irgendwie neu war und die hatten so Tabs, das war revolutionär krass, das hatte kein anderer so, ja.",{"text":37354,"start":26633,"end":26663},"Und das war mal so richtig son Grund, den Browser zu wechseln.",{"sentences":37356,"speaker":195,"num_words":37367,"start":26666,"end":26870},[37357,37359,37361,37363,37365],{"text":37358,"start":26666,"end":26702},"Oder als Firefox rauskam damals und so superschlank war und schneller war was, ja.",{"text":37360,"start":26702,"end":26720},"Aber das waren halt auch ganz andere Zeiten.",{"text":37362,"start":26720,"end":26745},"Da war halt 'n Browser noch eine viel kleinere Anwendung, ja?",{"text":37364,"start":26745,"end":26835},"Also jede dieser Schnittstellen, die Du gerade aufgezählt hast, ist ja nur ein Punkt mehr auf der To do Liste, die Du quasi implementieren musst, überhaupt erst mal dahin zu kommen, wo jetzt schon alle anderen sind.",{"text":37366,"start":26835,"end":26870},"Und da hast Du noch keinen Schritt mehr gemacht als die Bestandsplayer sozusagen, ja?",84,{"sentences":37369,"speaker":195,"num_words":37150,"start":26870,"end":26949},[37370,37372],{"text":37371,"start":26870,"end":26940},"Also wie realistisch ist es überhaupt, dass es irgendjemand jetzt aus dem Stand schaffen kann, einen vollkommen neuen Browser, eine vollkommen neue Browser Engine et cetera überhaupt zu zu bauen?",{"text":37373,"start":26943,"end":26949},"Glaub, Nettime",{"sentences":37375,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36658,"start":26953,"end":27039},[37376,37377,37379],{"text":1871,"start":26953,"end":26954},{"text":37378,"start":26957,"end":27010},"Ich hab, Lady Bird muss ich gestehen, glaube ich, letztes Mal vor 'nem Jahr gesehen, wie da der Entwicklungsstand war.",{"text":37380,"start":27010,"end":27039},"Aber ich meine, da hat man schon mal Webseiten zumindest erkennen können.",{"sentences":37382,"speaker":195,"num_words":193,"start":27039,"end":27059},[37383,37385],{"text":37384,"start":27039,"end":27053},"Ja, ja, die können mittlerweile nennen.",{"text":37386,"start":27053,"end":27059},"So, ja.",{"sentences":37388,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35742,"start":27059,"end":27168},[37389,37391,37393,37395,37397],{"text":37390,"start":27059,"end":27064},"Okay, super.",{"text":37392,"start":27067,"end":27077},"Wir haben's aber aufm Schirm.",{"text":37394,"start":27077,"end":27116},"Also es ist auch bei der Tag auf dem Schirm, weil das ja was Spannendes ist.",{"text":37396,"start":27116,"end":27155},"Ja, eine neue Engine, also geht uns dann dort genauso, die die dann dort hochkommt.",{"text":37398,"start":27158,"end":27168},"Ja, die Frage ist legitim.",{"sentences":37400,"speaker":1580,"num_words":37411,"start":27168,"end":27383},[37401,37403,37405,37407,37409],{"text":37402,"start":27168,"end":27206},"Kann man das überhaupt schaffen, noch mal so einen kompletten Browser von vorne hinzuzimmern?",{"text":37404,"start":27209,"end":27257},"Weil das ist so, es strömen ständig neue APIs, neue Features, neue Rendering Features quasi ins ins Web dazu.",{"text":37406,"start":27259,"end":27324},"Und ein Faktor, der ich hier Und das nächste Mal ist ja das, was wir aktuell sehen, sind ja alles Abspaltungen ja auch teilweise voneinander, ne.",{"text":37408,"start":27324,"end":27360},"Also zum Beispiel ist ja Chrome eine Webgate Abspaltung ursprünglich mal gewesen.",{"text":37410,"start":27362,"end":27383},"Und insofern hat man sich auch da Aufwand gespart.",80,{"sentences":37413,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36791,"start":27383,"end":27563},[37414,37416,37418,37420,37422],{"text":37415,"start":27383,"end":27418},"Und Web geht ja wiederum meine von Kater, Kater Mail, was glaube ich.",{"text":37417,"start":27422,"end":27504},"Und ja, kann das ändern, weil man hier mühelos im Prinzip die SPACs einfach mal hernehmen könnte und die in einen füttern lassen könnte und dann damit 'n Browser bauen kann.",{"text":37419,"start":27506,"end":27519},"Habe ich allerdings noch nicht gesehen.",{"text":37421,"start":27519,"end":27546},"Es wird auch im Hintergrund spekuliert, wann denn jetzt der 1.",{"text":37423,"start":27546,"end":27563},"Seinen Browser mal auf Rust umzieht.",{"sentences":37425,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36372,"start":27566,"end":27766},[37426,37428,37430,37432,37434],{"text":37427,"start":27566,"end":27576},"Auch das wäre mit denkbar.",{"text":37429,"start":27580,"end":27645},"In übersichtlicher Zeit muss man ein bisschen Tokens verbrennen, aber Bestandscode umzuziehen habe ich aber bisher noch nicht gesehen, Aber für die Zukunft.",{"text":37431,"start":27649,"end":27653},"Warum nicht?",{"text":37433,"start":27653,"end":27722},"Ich meine, das das Coole bei den B3C Specs ist halt gerade wenn sie, wenn es Recommendations sind und es die Implementierungserfahrung auch noch gibt.",{"text":37435,"start":27724,"end":27766},"Also den Stempel gibt's in aller Regel erst dann, wenn sie auch noch in dem Browser drin geschippt ist.",{"sentences":37437,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35861,"start":27768,"end":27913},[37438,37440,37442,37444,37446],{"text":37439,"start":27768,"end":27806},"Dann sind die SPACs so robust, dass Du wirklich hernehmen kannst und einfach runter implementieren kannst.",{"text":37441,"start":27809,"end":27855},"Vielleicht auch noch ein Faktor, wie 3C Standards sind alle offen, sind alle gratis, sind alle patentfrei.",{"text":37443,"start":27858,"end":27877},"Kannst das Ding hernehmen und kannst es implementieren.",{"text":37445,"start":27880,"end":27892},"Und insofern gäb's da keine Hürde.",{"text":37447,"start":27895,"end":27913},"Und ja, wer weiß, vielleicht macht das mal jemand.",{"sentences":37449,"speaker":1580,"num_words":174,"start":27916,"end":27917},[37450],{"text":27918,"start":27916,"end":27917},{"sentences":37452,"speaker":195,"num_words":37463,"start":27920,"end":28297},[37453,37455,37457,37459,37461],{"text":37454,"start":27920,"end":27936},"Jetzt ist ja Despec das eine.",{"text":37456,"start":27936,"end":28104},"Weil hab hier grad 'n Artikel aufgemacht, der der ist mir vor 'n paar Wochen übern Weg gelaufen und da geht es darum, wie viel Custom Code zum Browser eigentlich ship, so die großen Webseiten befriedigen zu können, ne, weil die halt eben nicht spec konform unterwegs sind oder wenn man sie spec konform rendern würde, quasi nichts mehr davon funktionieren würde.",{"text":37458,"start":28106,"end":28171},"Und das ist wohl so, dass es zumindest für Chrome und Safari ist das wohl relativ einsehbar, was die wohl so zur Runtime noch da reinpatchen.",{"text":37460,"start":28175,"end":28259},"Und da gibt's quasi für alle dieser großen Seiten, also wenn ich mir eine Liste angucke, dass irgendwie Discord Mitarbeiter ist, Office Mitarbeiter ist, Black Mitarbeiter ist, Google selbst Mitarbeiter ist, Netflix mit dabei.",{"text":37462,"start":28259,"end":28297},"So und quasi keine dieser Seiten würde funktionieren, wenn alle nur so bei the SPAC arbeiten würden.",145,{"sentences":37465,"speaker":195,"num_words":37474,"start":28301,"end":28587},[37466,37468,37470,37472],{"text":37467,"start":28301,"end":28329},"Und das ist ja auch quasi eine 'n Erfahrungswert so, ja.",{"text":37469,"start":28329,"end":28424},"Also zum einen könntet ihr da drauf gucken und sehen, okay, da da scheitert also die SPAC quasi, entweder weil sie nicht umgesetzt werden kann oder weil sie schlecht implementiert ist oder irgendwie passender Wunsch und Wirklichkeit nicht nicht ganz zusammen.",{"text":37471,"start":28427,"end":28532},"Und auf der anderen Seite ist das auch genau dann so die Differenz, wo jeder, der jetzt 'n neuen Browser bauen will, quasi auch draufgucken kann und sagt, na ja, hier muss ich ja eigentlich von der SPAC abweichen, weil sonst hab ich überhaupt gar keine Chance.",{"text":37473,"start":28532,"end":28587},"Weil wenn ich mich nur SPAC konform verhalte, dann funktioniert am Ende Slack bei mir nicht und alle brauchen irgendwie Slack oder so.",122,{"sentences":37476,"speaker":1580,"num_words":37367,"start":28589,"end":28798},[37477,37479,37481,37483,37485],{"text":37478,"start":28589,"end":28621},"Ja, ich kenn die Listen bei Firefox kann man die auch schön einsehen.",{"text":37480,"start":28624,"end":28692},"So, ich kenne sie aber nicht genau genug, deswegen will ich mich nicht allzu aus dem Fenster lehnen, aber manchmal liegt das auch das Problem auch auf Seiten der Websitebetreiber.",{"text":37482,"start":28696,"end":28775},"Und dann ist halt einfach der Impact viel zu groß, als dass man da in Kauf nehmen will, dass halt so eine Riesenseite wie, sagen wir mal, YouTube irgendwo nicht funktioniert.",{"text":37484,"start":28777,"end":28795},"Ja, aber es gibt die, es gibt die Liste.",{"text":3490,"start":28795,"end":28798},{"sentences":37487,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35752,"start":28798,"end":28819},[37488],{"text":37489,"start":28798,"end":28819},"Ist auch witzig, sich den Sourcecode anzuschauen.",{"sentences":37491,"speaker":195,"num_words":37137,"start":28822,"end":28921},[37492,37494,37496],{"text":37493,"start":28822,"end":28837},"Also teilweise manchmal wirklich banale Sachen.",{"text":37495,"start":28837,"end":28879},"So, ja, wo halt irgendwie son CSS Selektor umgebogen wird, einfach damit die Seite ordentlich aussieht.",{"text":37497,"start":28882,"end":28921},"Und manchmal ist es nur son Javascript alias oder so, aber es ist Ganz verrückt,",{"sentences":37499,"speaker":1580,"num_words":247,"start":28924,"end":28953},[37500],{"text":37501,"start":28924,"end":28953},"aber oft ist liegt's an der Seite selber, die müsste es mixen.",{"sentences":37503,"speaker":195,"num_words":36457,"start":28957,"end":29049},[37504,37505,37507,37509],{"text":3886,"start":28957,"end":28958},{"text":37506,"start":28958,"end":29029},"Aber trotzdem krass, dass ja offensichtlich irgendjemand bei Firefox und Chrome und allen so einfach nur damit beschäftigt wird, so zu schauen, okay, machen wir eine von diesen großen Seiten Genau.",{"text":37508,"start":29031,"end":29044},"Oder müssen wir da was patchen?",{"text":25423,"start":29048,"end":29049},{"sentences":37511,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35635,"start":29049,"end":29154},[37512,37513,37515,37517,37518],{"text":3886,"start":29049,"end":29051},{"text":37514,"start":29051,"end":29071},"Ja gut, die Motivation ist ja auch klar.",{"text":37516,"start":29071,"end":29119},"Du hast am Ende der Browser ist derjenige, der am Ende zig 1000 Issues offen hat, Ja.",{"text":29125,"start":29121,"end":29122},{"text":37519,"start":29122,"end":29154},"Das heißt, das liegt auch in deren Interesse, dass man das halt vermeidet.",{"sentences":37521,"speaker":1580,"num_words":174,"start":29157,"end":29158},[37522],{"text":3886,"start":29157,"end":29158},{"sentences":37524,"speaker":195,"num_words":35678,"start":29160,"end":29174},[37525],{"text":37526,"start":29160,"end":29174},"Hast Du noch eine Frage, Dennis?",{"sentences":37528,"speaker":174,"num_words":35747,"start":29177,"end":29208},[37529,37530,37531],{"text":1120,"start":29177,"end":29178},{"text":29183,"start":29181,"end":29182},{"text":37532,"start":29186,"end":29208},"Oster, habt ihr einen Pick of the day?",{"sentences":37534,"speaker":195,"num_words":35747,"start":29211,"end":29236},[37535],{"text":37536,"start":29211,"end":29236},"Aber jetzt haben wir, ich will's dann Es geht zu",{"sentences":37538,"speaker":174,"num_words":193,"start":29236,"end":29256},[37539],{"text":37540,"start":29236,"end":29256},"schnell, ich hab nur da schon mal vorweggebracht.",{"sentences":37542,"speaker":195,"num_words":35861,"start":29256,"end":29392},[37543,37545,37547],{"text":37544,"start":29256,"end":29279},"Ach so, steht zu langsam hier, willst Du sagen?",{"text":37546,"start":29279,"end":29289},"Wir sind zu langsam.",{"text":37548,"start":29291,"end":29392},"Christian, hast Du noch eine Frage, über die Du dich wunderst, dass wir sie dir nicht gestellt haben und Du denkst, ich war so gut vorbereitet, über das Thema x y zu sprechen und jetzt hat mich niemand darauf angesprochen, ich bin traurig.",{"sentences":37550,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35861,"start":29395,"end":29548},[37551,37553,37555,37557,37559],{"text":37552,"start":29395,"end":29432},"Nee, ich hab eine Ergänzung hab ich noch so im Hinterkopf, die ich vorhin sagen wollte.",{"text":37554,"start":29432,"end":29460},"Wichtig ist noch die Abgrenzung, dass das Betra erzählt.",{"text":37556,"start":29460,"end":29499},"Das rät jetzt immer ums World Wide Web und weiß nicht, das Internet als Ganzes.",{"text":37558,"start":29499,"end":29534},"Ja, also Internet hat immer andere Standardisierungsgremien, Gremien, IETF und so.",{"text":37560,"start":29534,"end":29548},"Die beiden, das bleibt trotzdem.",{"sentences":37562,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36283,"start":29551,"end":29707},[37563,37565,37567,37569,37571],{"text":37564,"start":29551,"end":29589},"Das ist Web, ist die Killerapplikation das Internet, aber das ist wichtig zur Begriffsklärung.",{"text":37566,"start":29593,"end":29645},"Und zum zweiten will ich einfach noch mal meinen Aufruf wiederholen, den ich quasi schon zuvor genannt hatte in diesem Podcast.",{"text":37568,"start":29648,"end":29670},"Also gerichtet an alle, die die das hier hören.",{"text":37570,"start":29672,"end":29700},"Ja, ich bin immer interessiert daran bewegt sich das in die richtige Richtung.",{"text":37572,"start":29704,"end":29707},"Fehlt was?",{"sentences":37574,"speaker":1580,"num_words":37585,"start":29707,"end":29825},[37575,37577,37579,37581,37583],{"text":37576,"start":29707,"end":29719},"Sollte etwas nicht drin sein?",{"text":37578,"start":29722,"end":29739},"Und bin froh, wenn ich da Input bekomme.",{"text":37580,"start":29739,"end":29752},"Wirklich egal von woher.",{"text":37582,"start":29756,"end":29800},"Und ich bring es sehr gerne zu den großen Browser Herstellern und zu den Leuten, die die Webstandards schreiben.",{"text":37584,"start":29803,"end":29825},"Und ja, würde mich freuen, von euch zu hören.",45,{"sentences":37587,"speaker":195,"num_words":247,"start":29827,"end":29853},[37588],{"text":37589,"start":29827,"end":29853},"Wo können die Leute dich am besten erreichen, wenn sie Input haben?",{"sentences":37591,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36954,"start":29856,"end":30024},[37592,37594,37596,37598,37600],{"text":37593,"start":29856,"end":29878},"Am besten einfach den Namen googeln, Christian Liebe.",{"text":37595,"start":29881,"end":29946},"Dann gibt's die Thinktakter Website, kann man auf meinen Namen draufklicken und dann geht direkt das E-Mail-Fensterchen auf und dann kann man mir schreiben.",{"text":37597,"start":29946,"end":29978},"E-Mail ist tatsächlich wahrscheinlich der beste Weg, weil da bleibt's in der Inbox.",{"text":37599,"start":29978,"end":30021},"Ansonsten bin ich aber auch auf jeder auf LinkedIn und jeder Microblogging Plattform, die es so gibt.",{"text":12629,"start":30023,"end":30024},{"sentences":37602,"speaker":1580,"num_words":174,"start":30026,"end":30027},[37603],{"text":30028,"start":30026,"end":30027},{"sentences":37605,"speaker":195,"num_words":35752,"start":30030,"end":30046},[37606],{"text":37607,"start":30030,"end":30046},"Dann jetzt dein dein Wort zum Übergang.",{"sentences":37609,"speaker":174,"num_words":1580,"start":30049,"end":30055},[37610],{"text":37611,"start":30049,"end":30055},"Vorher noch.",{"sentences":37613,"speaker":195,"num_words":1580,"start":30058,"end":30063},[37614],{"text":37615,"start":30058,"end":30063},"Okay, okay.",{"sentences":37617,"speaker":174,"num_words":35635,"start":30067,"end":30165},[37618,37620],{"text":37619,"start":30067,"end":30094},"Nee, ich dachte, man kann vielleicht auch mal Danke sagen, oder?",{"text":37621,"start":30094,"end":30165},"Also ich mein, es ist ja am Ende, also nicht nur, dass Du den Podcast catelst, es kommt ja später noch, das machst Du mir sicher eben abgesangen auf",{"sentences":37623,"speaker":195,"num_words":35678,"start":30165,"end":30185},[37624,37626],{"text":37625,"start":30165,"end":30182},"das Volk das heißt, ja.",{"text":3308,"start":30184,"end":30185},{"sentences":37628,"speaker":174,"num_words":36094,"start":30187,"end":30389},[37629,37631,37633,37635,37637],{"text":37630,"start":30187,"end":30211},"sonst ja auch irgendwo cool, dass Du dich da so engagiert.",{"text":37632,"start":30214,"end":30287},"Ich mein, das braucht ja auch die Leute, die da irgendwie die Motivation haben, sich dahinter zu klemmen und da jede Woche Energie und Zeit rein zu investieren, das Ganze zu tun.",{"text":37634,"start":30287,"end":30328},"Natürlich auch Unternehmen, die es unterstützen Thinktuure, von daher auch sehr cool, dass sie das machen.",{"text":37636,"start":30328,"end":30357},"Aber natürlich auch, ja, besonders an dich, dass Du das so mit vorantreibst.",{"text":37638,"start":30360,"end":30389},"Einfach mal stellvertretend für alle Entwickler*innen, die es grade zugehört haben,",{"sentences":37640,"speaker":195,"num_words":193,"start":30391,"end":30410},[37641],{"text":37642,"start":30391,"end":30410},"einen Und die, die nicht zugehört haben auch.",{"sentences":37644,"speaker":174,"num_words":36188,"start":30412,"end":30478},[37645,37647,37649,37650],{"text":37646,"start":30412,"end":30427},"Für die kann ich ja nicht reden.",{"text":37648,"start":30427,"end":30460},"Für die, die zuhören, können jetzt abschalten, wenn sie nicht der Meinung sind.",{"text":1120,"start":30462,"end":30463},{"text":37651,"start":30466,"end":30478},"Ja, cool, dass Du das machst.",{"sentences":37653,"speaker":195,"num_words":35752,"start":30481,"end":30504},[37654,37656],{"text":37655,"start":30481,"end":30489},"Ja, nimm lang.",{"text":37657,"start":30494,"end":30504},"Pause, jetzt Übergang, Dennis.",{"sentences":37659,"speaker":174,"num_words":36294,"start":30507,"end":30524},[37660,37662],{"text":37661,"start":30507,"end":30513},"Das war's.",{"text":37663,"start":30513,"end":30524},"Grüß dich, ja?",{"sentences":37665,"speaker":195,"num_words":35645,"start":30527,"end":30537},[37666,37667,37668],{"text":3886,"start":30527,"end":30528},{"text":19494,"start":30532,"end":30533},{"text":30538,"start":30536,"end":30537},{"sentences":37670,"speaker":174,"num_words":37210,"start":30537,"end":30578},[37671],{"text":37672,"start":30537,"end":30578},"Ja, unser Intro Sound ist ja, den wir hier lokal hören, ist 'n anderer als der",{"sentences":37674,"speaker":195,"num_words":36294,"start":30580,"end":30592},[37675],{"text":37676,"start":30580,"end":30592},"Ja, ja, den anderen interessant",{"sentences":37678,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35678,"start":30592,"end":30607},[37679],{"text":37680,"start":30592,"end":30607},"haben wir irgendwie nicht hier hochgeladen.",{"sentences":37682,"speaker":174,"num_words":37210,"start":30607,"end":30651},[37683,37685],{"text":37684,"start":30607,"end":30614},"Okay, deswegen.",{"text":37686,"start":30614,"end":30651},"Den feier ich, den mag ich, den Pick of Pick of the day Sound.",{"sentences":37688,"speaker":195,"num_words":37691,"start":30651,"end":30722},[37689],{"text":37690,"start":30651,"end":30722},"Jedes Mal, wenn ich den hör, die ersten 5 Sekunden feier ich den und dann bin ich so Bist Du ich glaub, ist 'n bisschen zu",26,{"sentences":37693,"speaker":1580,"num_words":1580,"start":30722,"end":30727},[37694,37695],{"text":30491,"start":30722,"end":30724},{"text":3886,"start":30724,"end":30727},{"sentences":37697,"speaker":195,"num_words":36766,"start":30729,"end":30794},[37698,37700,37701,37703,37705],{"text":37699,"start":30729,"end":30734},"Na ja.",{"text":19494,"start":30734,"end":30736},{"text":37702,"start":30736,"end":30747},"Picks of the day.",{"text":37704,"start":30750,"end":30779},"Dennis, Du hast gesagt, Du hast was, bis wir eine Stunde lang gesprochen haben.",{"text":37706,"start":30779,"end":30794},"Jetzt hast Du eine Stunde 12 gehabt.",{"sentences":37708,"speaker":195,"num_words":35645,"start":30797,"end":30802},[37709],{"text":37710,"start":30797,"end":30802},"Hast 'n Pick?",{"sentences":37712,"speaker":174,"num_words":35640,"start":30802,"end":30838},[37713],{"text":37714,"start":30802,"end":30838},"Ja, ich nehme noch den gleichen, Du wirst ihn nicht mögen, ist mir",{"sentences":37716,"speaker":195,"num_words":35645,"start":30838,"end":30847},[37717],{"text":37718,"start":30838,"end":30847},"erst Ach so.",{"sentences":37720,"speaker":174,"num_words":37729,"start":30849,"end":30981},[37721,37722,37724,37726,37727],{"text":30852,"start":30849,"end":30850},{"text":37723,"start":30854,"end":30871},"Mein Pick ist Jetzt bin ich gespannt.",{"text":37725,"start":30874,"end":30897},"Youtube aufmachen und Tesla FSD Deutschland eingeben.",{"text":12629,"start":30900,"end":30901},{"text":37728,"start":30904,"end":30981},"Also eigentlich, deswegen hab ich am Anfang gefragt, wann wird die Folge released, weil ich hatte die Woche eine Probefahrt mit FSD, wo man jetzt so begleitet, mitfahren darf bei Tesla.",47,{"sentences":37731,"speaker":174,"num_words":36068,"start":30981,"end":31214},[37732,37734,37736,37738,37740],{"text":37733,"start":30981,"end":31050},"Da sitzt Du dann Personen im im Fahrersitz und voll autonom kann man sich eine Adresse aussuchen und das Auto fährt ja dann dahin.",{"text":37735,"start":31053,"end":31097},"Und ich hab es davor auch viel auf Social Media gesehen, eben wenn man einfach nach Tesla FSD Deutschland sucht.",{"text":37737,"start":31097,"end":31118},"Und ich finde halt, es ist noch mal Unterschied.",{"text":37739,"start":31118,"end":31164},"Ich mein, man hat vielleicht schon Videos gesehen aus Amerika und breite Streissen, keine Ahnung, was so.",{"text":37741,"start":31164,"end":31214},"Wenn man das mal dann in Action sieht, wie's auf deutschen Straßen, in engen Innenstädten und so was funktioniert.",{"sentences":37743,"speaker":174,"num_words":36107,"start":31216,"end":31453},[37744,37746,37748,37750,37752],{"text":37745,"start":31216,"end":31305},"Von daher, das einfach mal als kleine Watch Empfehlung, guckt euch mal 10 Minuten irgendwie Stream, ich stream 10 Minuten Video an, wie ein Tesla durch deutsche Straßen fährt und drückt die Daumen.",{"text":37747,"start":31308,"end":31375},"Ich hab gestern gelesen, es ist jetzt schon das 5., aber das ist jetzt auch schon outdated, also wenn wir diese Folge aufnehmen, aber das 5.",{"text":37749,"start":31375,"end":31396},"Europäische Land hat er sich schon zugelassen.",{"text":37751,"start":31399,"end":31433},"Also in den letzten 48 Stunden sind noch viel Länder dazugekommen nach den Niederlanden.",{"text":37753,"start":31436,"end":31453},"Also 'n bisschen Bewegung ist da grade drin.",{"sentences":37755,"speaker":174,"num_words":35747,"start":31456,"end":31478},[37756,37757],{"text":3886,"start":31456,"end":31457},{"text":37758,"start":31459,"end":31478},"Also ich muss auch sagen, ich hab als ich",{"sentences":37760,"speaker":195,"num_words":37771,"start":31478,"end":31714},[37761,37763,37765,37767,37769],{"text":37762,"start":31478,"end":31544},"hab's ja nur in San Francisco mit dem Waymo gemacht und ich hab mich schon sehr sicher gefühlt, weil die Straßen entsprechend breit sind, so.",{"text":37764,"start":31547,"end":31674},"Und auch wenn's mal eine Situation gab, wo er son bisschen quasi Gegenverkehr ausweichen musste oder 'n Fahrradfahrer kam oder so, wenn einfach deine Spur noch 2 Meter hergibt, dann ist es halt was anderes, als wenn Du jetzt hier, weiß ich nicht, in Bad Nauheim durchs Dorf wärst und Ja.",{"text":37766,"start":31676,"end":31688},"Da halt so Normbreite hast.",{"text":37768,"start":31691,"end":31705},"Seitenspiegel plus 30 Zentimeter und fertig.",{"text":37770,"start":31707,"end":31714},"Ja, bin gespannt.",90,{"sentences":37773,"speaker":195,"num_words":247,"start":31716,"end":31743},[37774],{"text":37775,"start":31716,"end":31743},"Ich glaub, die haben das ja, in Niederlanden war das zuerst, ne.",{"sentences":37777,"speaker":174,"num_words":36294,"start":31743,"end":31757},[37778,37780],{"text":37779,"start":31743,"end":31749},"Genau, nie.",{"text":37781,"start":31749,"end":31757},"Da hab ich",{"sentences":37783,"speaker":195,"num_words":37137,"start":31757,"end":31846},[37784,37786],{"text":37785,"start":31757,"end":31843},"die ersten Videos damals gesehen und das war ja, also gefühlt sind die Straßen ja noch enger als bei uns und ganz oft auch quasi nur so einspurig und ohne son durchgezogenen Mittelstreifen und so was.",{"text":31847,"start":31845,"end":31846},{"sentences":37788,"speaker":174,"num_words":36283,"start":31846,"end":32002},[37789,37791,37792,37794,37796],{"text":37790,"start":31846,"end":31887},"Und Amsterdam immer so brutal, was Fahrräder angeht und Menschen, die rumlaufen so parallel.",{"text":3886,"start":31890,"end":31891},{"text":37793,"start":31894,"end":31897},"Aber ja.",{"text":37795,"start":31899,"end":31988},"Und für dich, Christian, Du hast doch die Chance, weil die die Folge noch jetzt frühzeitig Also Du guck, ob Du noch 'n Termin findest, falls Du das noch nicht gemacht hast, da kann man registrieren für.",{"text":37797,"start":31992,"end":32002},"Ja, aber Christian ist hab",{"sentences":37799,"speaker":195,"num_words":37248,"start":32002,"end":32040},[37800],{"text":37801,"start":32002,"end":32040},"ich mir bestimmt auch schon mal hier so Robo Taxi in in Amerika gefahren.",{"sentences":37803,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36008,"start":32043,"end":32171},[37804,37806,37808],{"text":37805,"start":32043,"end":32053},"Ebenfalls die die Waymos.",{"text":37807,"start":32057,"end":32094},"Dieses Jahr, als ich auf der Google io war, wurde es auf das Gebiet erweitert.",{"text":37809,"start":32094,"end":32171},"Also Du kannst es auch quasi in der restlichen Bay fahren und bald auch auf dem Highway, also wo ich dort war, gab's es schon für Betatesterinnen und Tester.",{"sentences":37811,"speaker":195,"num_words":37248,"start":32175,"end":32214},[37812],{"text":37813,"start":32175,"end":32214},"Weil wenn man bei 'nem Auto- und Betatester, ich weiß nicht, das ist also",{"sentences":37815,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36338,"start":32214,"end":32292},[37816,37817,37818],{"text":617,"start":32214,"end":32217},{"text":3886,"start":32221,"end":32222},{"text":37819,"start":32222,"end":32292},"Der ich aber leider nicht bin, insofern konnte ich noch nicht über den den Highway fahren und was bald kommt, sind so Busse, also wo noch mehr Leute reinpassen.",{"sentences":37821,"speaker":195,"num_words":36253,"start":32295,"end":32417},[37822,37824,37826,37827,37829],{"text":37823,"start":32295,"end":32331},"Ja, da hab ich schon 'n paar von den Vegas gesehen, als wir jetzt da waren.",{"text":37825,"start":32331,"end":32387},"Also ist nicht son Bus, ist da eher son großer Van vielleicht, sag ich's mal, ja, für so 6 Leute oder so.",{"text":3886,"start":32387,"end":32389},{"text":37828,"start":32389,"end":32395},"Aber Genau.",{"text":37830,"start":32397,"end":32417},"Ja, war auch schon Sah ganz cool aus.",{"sentences":37832,"speaker":195,"num_words":35663,"start":32417,"end":32441},[37833,37835],{"text":37834,"start":32417,"end":32429},"Okay, Pick of the day.",{"text":37836,"start":32429,"end":32441},"Christian, was hast Du am Start?",{"sentences":37838,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36842,"start":32444,"end":32508},[37839,37841],{"text":37840,"start":32444,"end":32471},"Ja, als hätten wir uns abgesprochen, ich hab ein Buch mitgebracht.",{"text":37842,"start":32471,"end":32508},"Vielleicht kennst Du das, ja, so Bücher, die man irgendwann mal kauft und viel",{"sentences":37844,"speaker":195,"num_words":35678,"start":32508,"end":32523},[37845],{"text":37846,"start":32508,"end":32523},"zu lange irgendwie im im Schrank",{"sentences":37848,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36359,"start":32523,"end":32712},[37849,37851,37853,37855,37857],{"text":37850,"start":32523,"end":32545},"auch rumliegen, aber ich Ganz egal, Freund.",{"text":37852,"start":32545,"end":32557},"Ja, mir geht's auch so.",{"text":37854,"start":32557,"end":32589},"Aber ich hab jetzt für den Langstreckenflug dann dorthin auch ein Buch raus gekramt.",{"text":37856,"start":32592,"end":32672},"Es nennt sich Kit Shut mied don't How we thing about for Future ist von Nick Foster und es geht Zukunft im weiten Sinne.",{"text":37858,"start":32672,"end":32712},"Und es startet mit 1 Frage, nämlich mach die Augen zu und stell dir Zukunft vor.",{"sentences":37860,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36234,"start":32712,"end":32910},[37861,37863,37865,37867,37869],{"text":37862,"start":32712,"end":32718},"Was siehst Du?",{"text":37864,"start":32721,"end":32796},"Und ich hab irgendwie so an meine persönliche Zukunft gedacht, aber gemeint war offenbar selbstfahrende Autos und Robotaxis und humanoide Roboter mit neonblauem LED Mantel.",{"text":37866,"start":32799,"end":32832},"Der Autor hier ist quasi in so Zukunftsabteilungen von vielen Unternehmen unterwegs gewesen.",{"text":37868,"start":32834,"end":32865},"Und ja, ist ja immer die Frage, was nimmt man sich vor als Projekt?",{"text":37870,"start":32868,"end":32910},"Und ja, das ist halt wahrscheinlich nicht jetzt die fliegende Status oder so was, sondern halt irgendwas Erreichbareres.",{"sentences":37872,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36791,"start":32915,"end":33107},[37873,37875,37877,37879,37881],{"text":37874,"start":32915,"end":32928},"Auf das scheint das Buch hinauszugehen.",{"text":37876,"start":32928,"end":32943},"Ich hab's noch nicht ganz durch.",{"text":37878,"start":32943,"end":32990},"Also es geht entlang der verschiedenen Zukunfts Futuristen Typen geht's durch, nämlich Kurt, might und don't.",{"text":37880,"start":32990,"end":33015},"Ich habe jetzt gerade das Kapitel Kurt abgeschlossen.",{"text":37882,"start":33018,"end":33107},"Also der könnte Futurist, der meistens irgendwie schrill aussieht, irgendwelche Szenarien aufmalt, aber eigentlich keine Detailfragen dazu beantworten kann und dann vielleicht die die Kulisse dann doch auch schnell wieder zusammenbricht.",{"sentences":37884,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35952,"start":33110,"end":33242},[37885,37887,37889],{"text":37886,"start":33110,"end":33137},"Bin gespannt, was die anderen Typen dann noch so in sich verbergen.",{"text":37888,"start":33140,"end":33211},"Also Shirt, might und don't und vermute, was dann die These ist, nämlich dass man wahrscheinlich so ein Mix von allem mitbringen soll, wenn man über die Zukunft denkt.",{"text":37890,"start":33211,"end":33242},"Und so was wie selbstfahrende Autos ist ja eigentlich eine schöne Vorstellung.",{"sentences":37892,"speaker":195,"num_words":35809,"start":33245,"end":33427},[37893,37894,37896,37897,37899],{"text":3886,"start":33245,"end":33246},{"text":37895,"start":33246,"end":33362},"Ich war mal vor, als wir auf der via Devilop Us waren zusammen vor 2 oder 3 Jahren, war ja auch die Abschlusskeynote von sonem Futurist gehalten, der bei irgendwie einem dieser großen Techfirmen, Microsoft oder Google oder so kam der, glaub ich, her.",{"text":12625,"start":33362,"end":33364},{"text":37898,"start":33364,"end":33394},"Und da dachte ich mir schon auch, das ist 'n abgefahrener Job.",{"text":37900,"start":33397,"end":33427},"Also wenn Du einfach nur so damit dafür beschäftigt wirst, darüber nachzudenken, Wieso?",{"sentences":37902,"speaker":195,"num_words":36094,"start":33430,"end":33644},[37903,37905,37907,37909,37911],{"text":37904,"start":33430,"end":33450},"Wie das denn so in Zukunft irgendwie aussehen könnte.",{"text":37906,"start":33450,"end":33557},"Und der war auch eher vom Typ her, wie Christian grade gesagt hat, so bisschen extravagant im Auftreten, bisschen schrill in den Slides, bisschen sehr fragil, wenn man nachgefragt hat, aber gedacht so, ja, warum nicht, wenn man Spaß daran hat irgendwie?",{"text":37908,"start":33561,"end":33595},"Ja, muss man, glaube ich, der Typ für sein, aber sah ganz lustig aus.",{"text":37910,"start":33597,"end":33624},"Ich hab einen Pick dabei, der eher sich die Gegenwart dreht.",{"text":37912,"start":33624,"end":33644},"Hat 1 von euch Silicon Valley geguckt?",{"sentences":37914,"speaker":195,"num_words":36973,"start":33647,"end":33686},[37915,37917,37918,37919,37920],{"text":37916,"start":33647,"end":33676},"Die, es war, glaub ich, 1 HBO Serie ist schon rum.",{"text":1120,"start":33676,"end":33680},{"text":29183,"start":33680,"end":33682},{"text":29183,"start":33682,"end":33684},{"text":29183,"start":33684,"end":33686},{"sentences":37922,"speaker":195,"num_words":35983,"start":33686,"end":33739},[37923,37924,37925],{"text":29183,"start":33686,"end":33689},{"text":19494,"start":33691,"end":33692},{"text":37926,"start":33692,"end":33739},"Ich weiß nicht, ob Okay, dann klottwist, das ist jetzt mein Pick, weil ihr habt das noch nicht geguckt.",{"sentences":37928,"speaker":1580,"num_words":1580,"start":33742,"end":33746},[37929],{"text":37930,"start":33742,"end":33746},"Ich wollt",{"sentences":37932,"speaker":195,"num_words":36391,"start":33746,"end":33998},[37933,37935,37936,37938,37940],{"text":37934,"start":33746,"end":33798},"eigentlich was darauf aufbauen, Pipp, aber wenn ihr das noch nicht mal kennt, dann picken wir jetzt ganz kurz Silicon Valley.",{"text":19494,"start":33798,"end":33801},{"text":37937,"start":33801,"end":33911},"Silicon Valley ist eine Serie, die ist, glaub ich, jetzt schon 'n paar Jahre rum, hat auch nur son paar wenige Staffeln und erzählt im Prinzip die Geschichte von sonem sehr jungen Start-up, die versuchen, mit so diversesten Ideen erfolgreich zu sein eben im Valley.",{"text":37939,"start":33911,"end":33958},"Erst mal sone Musikplattform, dann finden Sie nebenbei son abgefahrenen Kompressionsalgorithmus und wollen damit irgendwie groß rauskommen.",{"text":37941,"start":33961,"end":33998},"Und das ist halt ein sehr, sehr dünner Mantel die aktuelle Tech Bubble rum.",{"sentences":37943,"speaker":195,"num_words":36737,"start":33998,"end":34221},[37944,37946,37948,37950,37952],{"text":37945,"start":33998,"end":34058},"Also es gibt eine Firma, die quasi 1 zu 1 'n Klon ist von Google, wo Du auch 1 zu 1 die Leute davon irgendwie erkennst.",{"text":37947,"start":34058,"end":34105},"Das hat nur der Name und die Farben so ganz leicht geändert, Das Apple ist irgendwie da so, ja.",{"text":37949,"start":34107,"end":34151},"Und das wurde damals sehr gefeiert, weil das halt superlustig und und schrill und und so was alles ist.",{"text":37951,"start":34151,"end":34176},"Auch eine echt gute Comedy, gut geschrieben, gut gespielt.",{"text":37953,"start":34180,"end":34221},"Aber alle, die sich halt so mit dem Valley auskennen, haben halt damals gesagt, nee, ist halt genauso.",{"sentences":37955,"speaker":195,"num_words":35658,"start":34225,"end":34490},[37956,37958,37960,37962,37964],{"text":37957,"start":34225,"end":34273},"Also auch wenn alle darüber lachen und das irgendwie mega überzogen wirkt, halt genauso passiert das halt so, 1 zu 1.",{"text":37959,"start":34273,"end":34285},"Ich sag mal, die 1.",{"text":37961,"start":34285,"end":34442},"Folge fängt irgendwie damit an, dass sie bei sonem Investor auf soner Gartenparty sind und Kit Rock spielt irgendwie im Garten für seine Gäste so, ja, und irgendjemand im Publikum meint so zu seinem Freund im Vorbeigehen so, ja, glaubst Du, KitRock ist mir darüber bewusst, dass er die armste Person auf diesem ganzen Gelände irgendwie ist so, ja?",{"text":37963,"start":34442,"end":34471},"Und also ich glaub wirklich, genauso ticken da die Leute manchmal, ja?",{"text":37965,"start":34474,"end":34490},"Und kann man kann man nur empfehlen.",{"sentences":37967,"speaker":195,"num_words":36359,"start":34493,"end":34668},[37968,37970,37972,37974,37976],{"text":37969,"start":34493,"end":34594},"Also Silicon Valley, es gibt abgefahrene Charaktere, es gibt sehr sympathische Nerds, so wie Big Bang Theory am Anfang auch war, ja, als man noch mit den Leuten gelacht hat und nicht über die Leute, fand ich's mehr cool.",{"text":37971,"start":34594,"end":34615},"Ich nehm das jetzt als Ad hocic.",{"text":37973,"start":34615,"end":34621},"Silicon Valley.",{"text":37975,"start":34621,"end":34640},"Wenn ihr's noch nicht geguckt habt, unbedingt nachholen.",{"text":37977,"start":34640,"end":34668},"Und wenn ihr's durchgeguckt habt, gibt es Hebt ihr's auf.",{"sentences":37979,"speaker":195,"num_words":36565,"start":34668,"end":34815},[37980,37982,37984,37986,37988],{"text":37981,"start":34668,"end":34697},"Nein, nein, nein, hat auch noch mit Silicon Valley zu tun.",{"text":37983,"start":34699,"end":34749},"Das wurde, glaub ich, nämlich nie als Folge ausgestrahlt, aber es gibt ein, weiß nicht, sozusagen, geht nur 10, 15 Minuten.",{"text":37985,"start":34749,"end":34768},"Das haben sie damals exklusiv auf Youtube veröffentlicht.",{"text":37987,"start":34770,"end":34812},"Das muss man unbedingt auch noch gucken, weil da wird quasi die Geschichte erst so richtig fertig gemacht und ja.",{"text":27918,"start":34814,"end":34815},{"sentences":37990,"speaker":195,"num_words":35783,"start":34817,"end":34825},[37991],{"text":37992,"start":34817,"end":34825},"Das als mein Pick.",{"sentences":37994,"speaker":174,"num_words":1580,"start":34828,"end":34833},[37995],{"text":37996,"start":34828,"end":34833},"Sehr gut.",{"sentences":37998,"speaker":195,"num_words":35809,"start":34835,"end":35009},[37999,38001,38003,38005,38007],{"text":38000,"start":34835,"end":34897},"Ja, dann, also auch wenn Dennis schon Danke gesagt hat, quasi für alle, die zuhören und oder nicht zuhören, jetzt vielleicht nicht mehr zuhören, indem er Danke gesagt hat.",{"text":38002,"start":34899,"end":34920},"Christian, trotzdem noch mal auch von mir, 1000 Dank.",{"text":38004,"start":34920,"end":34932},"Schön, dass Du da warst.",{"text":38006,"start":34932,"end":34952},"Danke, dass Du dir die Zeit genommen hast.",{"text":38008,"start":34952,"end":35009},"Fand's superinteressant, da mal so hinter die Kulissen des Webs zu gucken oder das Internet ist auch ein Teil davon.",{"sentences":38010,"speaker":195,"num_words":36372,"start":35013,"end":35183},[38011,38013,38015,38017,38018],{"text":38012,"start":35013,"end":35096},"Mega cool und wir sollten auf alle Fälle, wenn diese WebMCP Nummer 'n bisschen durchgelaufen ist und ihr da eine Meinung habt und es da eine Entscheidung gibt, lass uns da gerne auch noch mal drüber sprechen.",{"text":38014,"start":35096,"end":35123},"Da können wir vielleicht mal schauen so, wie war so der Prozess?",{"text":38016,"start":35123,"end":35160},"Was ist da jetzt am Ende wirklich bei rausgekommen und wie finden wir das eigentlich so?",{"text":3886,"start":35160,"end":35164},{"text":38019,"start":35164,"end":35183},"Und dann schauen wir da noch mal rein.",{"sentences":38021,"speaker":195,"num_words":35678,"start":35185,"end":35198},[38022],{"text":38023,"start":35185,"end":35198},"Dann dauert's auch nicht wieder Ja,",{"sentences":38025,"speaker":1580,"num_words":36294,"start":35198,"end":35213},[38026,38028],{"text":38027,"start":35198,"end":35205},"das muss.",{"text":38029,"start":35208,"end":35213},"Ich wollt grad",{"sentences":38031,"speaker":195,"num_words":36260,"start":35213,"end":35283},[38032],{"text":38033,"start":35213,"end":35283},"sagen, dann dauert's auch nicht 5 Jahre, bis wir uns widersprechen, aber das ist vielleicht 'n bisschen, diese komplexeren Feature können auch 5 Jahre dauern, weiß ich jetzt nicht.",{"sentences":38035,"speaker":1580,"num_words":35823,"start":35283,"end":35326},[38036,38038],{"text":38037,"start":35283,"end":35298},"Das liegt ja schon 'n bisschen.",{"text":38039,"start":35298,"end":35326},"Insofern, das das Review, das wird innerhalb der nächsten Wochen ausgeführt.",{"sentences":38041,"speaker":195,"num_words":36188,"start":35329,"end":35403},[38042,38044,38046,38047,38049],{"text":38043,"start":35329,"end":35345},"Okay, Heard it your first.",{"text":38045,"start":35348,"end":35366},"Schauen wir mal, wie's dann wie's dann kommt.",{"text":30028,"start":35366,"end":35368},{"text":38048,"start":35370,"end":35382},"Christian, 1000 Dank, Dennis Danke.",{"text":38050,"start":35386,"end":35403},"1000 Dank, dass Du da mit dabei warst.",{"sentences":38052,"speaker":174,"num_words":1580,"start":35403,"end":35408},[38053],{"text":38054,"start":35403,"end":35408},"Sehr gerne.",{"sentences":38056,"speaker":195,"num_words":36359,"start":35408,"end":35582},[38057,38059,38061,38063],{"text":38058,"start":35408,"end":35469},"Wenn ihr Fragen, Anregungen, Kritik habt, die nicht an Christian gehen, sondern an uns, dann gerne eine E-Mail an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar.",{"text":38060,"start":35469,"end":35505},"Auch wir sind auf diversen Social Media Kanälen, LinkedIn, Kurznachrichtendiensten, wo auch immer.",{"text":38062,"start":35505,"end":35552},"Ihr könnt auch gerne auf Youtube oder Spotify 'n Kommentar hinterlassen, den lesen wir auch fleißig mit.",{"text":38064,"start":35555,"end":35582},"Und ansonsten hören wir uns in 1 Woche wieder mit den News.",{"sentences":38066,"speaker":1580,"num_words":1580,"start":35585,"end":35590},[38067],{"text":38068,"start":35585,"end":35590},"Bis dahin.",{"sentences":38070,"speaker":174,"num_words":1580,"start":35590,"end":35595},[38071],{"text":38072,"start":35590,"end":35595},"Ach so.",{"sentences":38074,"speaker":195,"num_words":35752,"start":35595,"end":35618},[38075,38076,38078,38080],{"text":38068,"start":35595,"end":35600},{"text":38077,"start":35600,"end":35608},"Tschau, tschau.",{"text":38079,"start":35612,"end":35615},"Bis 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für euch vor der Kamera, Kamera, vor dem Mikrofon. Ich weiß gar nicht, was mir ihr als Erstes sagt. Ich bin Oh, natürlich. Vor dem 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